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House of Assembly - Fifty-Third Parliament, Second Session (53-2)
2015-05-13 Daily Xml
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Motions

e-Cigarettes

Adjourned debate on motion of Ms Digance:

That this house establish a select committee to investigate and report on e-cigarettes and any legislative and regulatory controls that should be applied to the advertising, sale and use of personal vaporisers; and in particular—

(a) the potential for personal vaporisers to reduce tobacco smoking prevalence and harms;

(b) the potential risks of these products to individual and population health from vapour emissions, poisoning and the reduced impact of tobacco control measures;

(c) make recommendations on approaches to the regulation of personal vaporisers under the Tobacco Products Regulation Act 1997, including addressing the following areas—

(i) availability and supply;

(ii) sales to minors;

(iii) advertising and promotion;

(iv) use in smoke-free areas;

(v) product safety and quality control; and

(d) any other relevant matters.

(Continued from 6 May 2015.)

Dr McFETRIDGE (Morphett) (11:03): I rise to support the motion of the member for Elder. However, can I just preface my comments in supporting the motion that we now have a number of committees being set up through this place, and the time pressures on members are becoming more acute. That is not to say that the committees are not doing valuable work, but is there a better way of doing things?

While I am not a lawyer—and by that I am boasting, not apologising—I think perhaps some direct legislation might be the way to go. I think there is enough evidence out there to control things like e-cigarettes without having to form another committee. But, having said that, I might have to eat my words once the committee comes down with its recommendations.

How our attitudes to tobacco have changed. I spent many of my younger years out at Elizabeth. I grew up on Hogarth Road at Elizabeth South and went to Elizabeth South Primary School. I remember when I was a tiny kid in grade 3 I went to the Elizabeth South Primary School fete. There was the dart game there and I managed to fluke a dart onto a couple of cards and I won a prize. I was in grade 3 and do you know what the prize was? A packet of Craven A cigarettes. My three brothers and I were very tempted. How things have changed.

I do not remember it, but both my parents smoked when I was very small. Once again, their attitudes have changed like all of our attitudes. I did try smoking once when I was first appointed to Port Augusta High School. All the other guys smoked in Grotty Lodge, the house we shared, and so I thought, 'If you can't beat them, join them,' but I am afraid that one attempt on half a cigarette was more than enough to say that this was not for me.

The health hazards of smoking are well documented. The economic impacts of diseases from smoking are well documented. The billions of dollars' impact on the economy is something we have to really address and we have been in many ways. The use of e-cigarettes has been put out there as a way of getting people off normal cigarettes. I cannot remember the exact number of toxic chemicals you are actually inhaling when you suck on a cigarette. To me, having done a lot of pharmacology, physiology and toxicology in my veterinary science studies, that concoction was more than enough to convince me that you would never want to smoke and anybody who does smoke is a dope because of the harm that you are doing to yourself. If e-cigarettes were a panacea then I think they would have been on the market a lot sooner.

I was at a car crash between Meadows and Strath. The car was upside down and everything in the car was strewn everywhere. This was at 10 o'clock at night with the CFS. There were these metal cylindrical implements there and I thought they were EpiPens or something like that. Fortunately, I spoke to the young girl driving the car afterwards and said, 'What are they?' They were e-cigarettes. They are a very complicated looking instrument. They had graduations on them and were very well engineered. I had never seen an e-cigarette up close like that before.

If e-cigarettes were working as well as they are supposed to be in stopping smoking, I think they would have been out there a long time ago. The problem we have with e-cigarettes is that, because of the regulations in South Australia, they are available for anybody to buy, including kids, so whether you are a grade 3 kid at Elizabeth South Primary School or somebody else, you can go and buy an e-cigarette now.

The next thing is what you put into that e-cigarette. I think it is a propylene glycol base, or some similar base, that has other aromatics and chemicals in with it that are then heated up by the electronics in the cigarette and you inhale the vapour. The problem for everybody though is that nicotine is a scheduled drug. Having said that, the nicotine juice, as I understand it, is in theory a S2, so that is a pharmacy drug, but because it has not been regulated to the extent that it should have been it is still under a S7 schedule which is a dangerous poison, so buying nicotine, even for personal use on the internet, is a very grey area. The need to change legislation and change regulation to keep up with the importation of nicotine is something that perhaps this committee will come up with some recommendations on.

In relation to the need to regulate tobacco products, the current legislation is there now, but lawyers interpret legislation however they want to and judges, in their wisdom, do this as well. I am not questioning their wisdom, but the intent of the legislation sometimes puzzles laypeople like me. Looking at the legislation, I would interpret it, as a reasonably intelligent person, I think, to say that you could encompass e-cigarettes in that without any real argument. I suspect that the legislation is there already. If it needs tweaking a bit, do so. I do not know whether we need to form a committee for it; but, having said that, I am certainly not going to oppose a committee being set up and members getting $12.50 a sitting.

We need to make sure that we are informed in this place, though, and that is something that I would never ever back away from. In relation to the need to look at this issue, I think there is a way forward. We do not need a committee, but at the same time I am not going to be opposing the committee. I know about the member for Elder's background as a health worker, and she is obviously very interested in this area. Good luck to the committee. I hope that they are able to come up with some solid recommendations, so that any tweaking of the legislation or regulations can be done as quickly as possible so that we can eliminate any loopholes and any potential harm so that anybody from grade 3 at Elizabeth South Primary School cannot go out and access nicotine products, let alone win them on the school fete dartboard.

Mr PICTON (Kaurna) (11:11): It is my pleasure to speak today to support the motion from the member for Elder to establish this select committee to look at e-cigarettes, which I think is a very important issue for this house to investigate. I think it is exactly the right sort of issue for a select committee look into. There is a clear public health need, but it is a new technology, and laws definitely have not caught up with the technology as it has developed. It is definitely worth having a look at. I also congratulate the Minister for Health for working with the member for Elder on developing this committee and for being supportive of the parliament looking into this rather than it being just a departmental process.

Tobacco control has certainly been a passion of mine for some time. I worked on a number of tobacco control measures, most particularly on the plain packaging of cigarettes, which was very controversial and it went through a number of legal and political challenges before its implementation. However, we are now seeing the tremendous effects of that legislation through the much reduced consumption of tobacco and lower smoking rates across Australia. Australia now has one of the lowest smoking rates in the world, which is important because we know that every cigarette you smoke causes you damage. There are no ifs or buts about it. It is not something like alcohol, where you can consume a safe amount of the product. Every single part of the consumption will cause people damage, and that is why it is a very important measure for both state and federal governments to take action on.

E-cigarettes uses a new technology, and there is debate about its merits. There are very strong public health advocates in the tobacco space, people like Professor Simon Chapman and Professor Mike Daw, who are leading the campaign to say that we should take action to stop e-cigarettes. They are worried about the aspect of e-cigarettes that will enable the promotion of smoking and that smoking will be seen as more socially acceptable and lead people back to smoking normal cigarettes, but they are also concerned about the health impacts of e-cigarettes. Of course, there are advocates of e-cigarettes and the vaping community, who are saying that this is a good way for people to stop smoking tobacco cigarettes and it will potentially improve their health.

I think that forming this committee is the right approach to look at all of the arguments and for us to come to some conclusions about the merits of each of them and also how the legislation can be improved in South Australia based on what the evidence shows. No matter what, there is clearly in South Australia a need to take some sort of regulatory action. This is now a very grey area of legislation, as this is a product and technology that was never envisaged when our tobacco laws were passed, and we do not want to see no action in this space. I think it is really a question for this committee of: how much action should be taken and what form should that action take? So, I absolutely support the member for Elder's motion. I hope it gets strong support from both sides of parliament and that we can work together in a bipartisan manner on this important public health matter.

Mr TARZIA (Hartley) (11:15): I also rise today to support the motion for a select committee on e-cigarettes. I note that a committee is very good, however, legislation in this area would be much better. I will refer to what has been done interstate with regard to this matter in just a moment. This is obviously a very serious issue. We on this side of the chamber will not stand in the way of a committee on this issue, I make that very clear. Obviously, there are these e-cigarettes out there, battery-operated devices that sometimes heat a liquid to produce a vapour that users inhale.

There is mixed feedback amongst health professionals about the potential risks and potential benefits of these items and they are the subject of much debate by tobacco control and public health experts. Some people claim that these devices assist smokers to quit, others say that their long-term health effects are unknown, and at a community level there is obviously a concern that this does have the aspect of being like a gateway item to cigarettes. I notice that the CEO of the National Health and Medical Research Council has recently said:

There is currently insufficient evidence to conclude whether e-cigarettes can benefit smokers in quitting, or about the extent of their potential harms.

He recommends that

…health authorities act to minimise harm until evidence of safety, quality and efficacy can be produced.

There are a number of current regulations concerning this matter and there may be a case that certain promotions of electronic cigarettes are in breach of the Tobacco Advertising Prohibition Act. In South Australia, specifically to electronic cigarettes, there are no legislative provisions.

I also make the point that the Cancer Council of Australia and the Heart Foundation of Australia have recommended that, given the serious risks in this area, there is sufficient information already to act against these cigarettes in three areas. They suggest: one, ban the retail sale of non-nicotine electronic cigarettes, unless the product has been approved by the TGA; two, ensuring that smoke-free laws in each state and territory cover electronic cigarette use, and; three, prohibiting advertising and promotion of electronic cigarettes, consistent with tobacco advertising prohibitions.

As I alluded to, a committee is good, but legislation is better. The current definition of a tobacco product in the Tobacco Products Regulation Act states that a:

tobacco product means—

(a) a cigarette; or

(b) a cigar; or

(c) cigarette or pipe tobacco; or

(d) tobacco prepared for chewing or sucking; or

(e) snuff; or

(f) any other product containing tobacco of a kind prescribed by regulation; or

(g) any product that does not contain tobacco but is designed for smoking…

Whilst I do not stand in the way of a committee, what this committee may do is look at what has been done interstate. What you will find is that Queensland became the first Australian jurisdiction to regulate e-cigarettes in the same way as tobacco products are regulated. So, if the committee recommended that e-cigarettes be included in that definition, it would fall within the Tobacco Products Regulation Act and, alas, there are requirements for licences in that act, and, alas, there are requirements that surround the sale and promotion of those objects if they are caught within that act. In addition, the act also already captures the sale and promotion to minors. In fact, it is already prohibited. Not only that, section 38A is about sale or supply of tobacco products to children as well.

Whilst we will not on this side of the chamber stand in the way of the committee, a committee is good but legislation is better. What we would call for is for this place to be used in the most efficient way possible and for the taxpayer dollar to be used in the most efficient way possible. I would encourage this committee to look at what has been done interstate in this area already. In New South Wales, legislation has been introduced to ban e-cigarette sales to minors. The sale of electronic cigarettes and accessories, including e-liquids to minors will be banned if a new bill introduced by the government is successful. I notice that Mrs Skinner interstate admits:

What we are seeing in other countries is a sharp rise in the use of e-cigarettes by children and young people.

No doubt this is a massive issue. The Queensland parliament amended the Tobacco and Other Smoking Products Act 1998, the tobacco act, to capture electronic cigarettes as smoking products. Electronic cigarettes will now be subject to the same laws as regular cigarettes from 1 January 2015, and that is a good thing for the committee.

Whilst we are not holding back the committee—we agree with the committee on this side of the chamber—it is positive to see that this research has been done quite recently (we are talking about January) on this area, and I note that other parliaments have, through legislative change, regulated what is a very important topic in the law. I would encourage the committee to look at how Queensland became the first Australian jurisdiction to regulate e-cigarettes.

I would also encourage the committee to look at how New South Wales will ban the sale of electronic nicotine systems to minors. I also encourage the committee to look at what is happening in Western Australia at the moment. In Western Australia, I believe that the Western Australian Supreme Court found that the word 'resemble' includes how a product is used as well as its appearance. I understand that an appeal to this decision was recently lodged with the full bench of the Supreme Court of Western Australia.

The member for Elder makes a number of points on the committee's terms of reference: sale to minors, advertising promotion, use in smoke-free areas, product safety, quality control, and any other relevant matters. We certainly support this motion on this side of the house, but at the same time let us be real about this. What I call for from the health minister, if he is serious about this issue, is legislative change. If he is serious about e-cigarettes and regulating them, let us see legislative change, just like the health ministers of New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia. We do not hold back—we support the committee—but we need legislative change as well.

I am hoping that, when this committee takes place, that it has regard to what has already been done interstate, as I alluded to, as early as January. In saying that, I am sure a number of positives will come out of this committee, so it is with those few comments that I hope I have been clear that I support the member for Elder's motion. However, in many respects we may not have to reinvent the wheel because legislative change has been made in New South Wales, it has been made in Queensland, and it has been made in Western Australia so, rather than just a committee, we need more than a committee: we need this committee to provide fruitful results, and I hope that will result in legislative change that addresses this very important issue because it is an important issue.

As we have heard from other speakers before us, it is very important that we get this issue right and that the law is adopted and amended to reflect new technology, just like we would in any other area where new technology is available. I support the motion before the house.

Debate adjourned on motion of Hon. S.W. Key.

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