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House of Assembly - Fifty-Fifth Parliament, First Session (55-1)
2025-06-23 Daily Xml
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Attorney-General's Department, $155,240,000

Administered Items for the Attorney-General's Department, $90,903,000

Department of State Development, $479,748,000

Administered Items for the Department of State Development, $23,810,00


Membership:

Hon. V.A. Tarzia substituted for Mr Telfer.

Mr Fulbrook substituted for Ms Stinson.


Minister:

Hon. A. Michaels, Minister for Small and Family Business, Minister for Consumer and Business Affairs, Minister for Arts.


Departmental Advisers:

Mr A. Reid, Chief Executive, Department of State Development.

Mr A. Swanson, Chief Financial Officer, Attorney-General's Department.

Dr A. Dunbar, Executive Director, Industry, Innovation and Small Business, Department of State Development.

Ms D. Tembak, Executive Director, Portfolio Delivery, Department of State Development.

Mr C. Markwick, Executive Director, Industry and Workforce Capability, Department of State Development.

Ms K. Calaby, Director, Office for Small and Family Business, Department of State Development.

Ms O. Anemouru, Acting South Australian Small Business Commissioner.

Ms S. Sheridan, Manager, Budgeting and Reporting, Department of State Development.


The CHAIR: Welcome back to today's estimates committee hearing. I understand the minister and the lead speaker for the opposition have agreed an approximate time for the consideration of proposed payments, which will facilitate a change of departmental advisers. Can the minister and lead speaker for the opposition confirm that the timetable for today's proceedings, previously distributed, is accurate?

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Yes.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Yes, it is.

The CHAIR: I remind members that all questions are to be directed to the minister, not the minister's advisers. The minister may refer questions to advisers for a response. Questions must be based on lines of expenditure in the budget papers and must be identifiable or referenced.

Briefly I also advise that: if the minister undertakes to supply information at a later date, it must be submitted to the Clerk Assistant via the Answer to Questions mailbox no later than Friday 5 September 2025. Members unable to complete their questions may submit them as questions on notice for inclusion in the assembly Notice Paper.

The rules of debate in the house apply in committee. Ministers and members may not table documents before the committee but may supply them to the Chair for distribution. I will allow both the minister and the lead speaker for the opposition to make opening statements of about 10 minutes each, should they wish.

I will now proceed to open the following lines for examination: the portfolio of the Office for Small Business and the Commissioner for Small Business and Family Business. The minister appearing is the Minister for Small and Family Business. I declare the proposed payments open for examination. I call on the minister to make an opening statement, if she so wishes, and to introduce her advisers.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Thank you, Chair. I would like to introduce, on my left, Mr Adam Reid, Chief Executive, Department of State Development, and Dr Andrew Dunbar, Executive Director, Industry, Innovation and Small Business. On my right I have Ms Kathryn Calaby, Director, Office of Small and Family Business. Behind me I have representatives from DSD: Ms Diana Tembak, Mr Callan Markwick and Ms Susan Sheridan, and Ms Olivia Anemouru from the Office of the Small Business Commissioner.

I do not propose to make an opening statement other than to thank all of our department people for the enormous amount of work that goes into preparing for estimates, and all the work that has been done in this portfolio over the last 12 months. Our small business sector, I am sure, is very grateful for the support they have received.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Good afternoon, minister, and good afternoon to your team. I will start with Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 80, in terms of 'Program net cost of services', services and programs to support small and family businesses to start, operate and grow. The office's objective is to support small and family businesses in South Australia to grow, to innovate and to take advantage of new market opportunities where possible.

What does the minister say to concerns recently raised by, say, the chamber about government regulation becoming a barrier for small businesses in South Australia? They say it is something like the second biggest issue for businesses after costs, and keeps climbing up the ranks for the last few surveys. So how does the budget, how does this line, how does this office address those sorts of things?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We have been working really closely with the business chamber, with other industry associations on that particular red-tape issue. I think it is more than just saying the words, 'we are going to reduce red tape'; I think it is action, and I and the agency have certainly had a very keen eye on where we can reduce red tape.

I have done it in my other portfolio hats. For example, there is a liquor licensing amendment bill out for consultation at the moment. A number of changes in there are off the back of work we have done with the AHA and other industry bodies around reducing red tape in that liquor licensing space. I think the difficulty with red tape, and I have said this in several meetings with Andrew Kaye and the business chamber, is trying to find actual practical solutions to some of these things.

I know, off the back of some of our conversations, they have gone out to their members to specifically ask for examples, and I had a meeting with them probably only a few weeks ago where they admitted the specific examples were not readily flowing through from their members. I think what we have to do is really take it industry by industry. A lot of it is around how local government, state government and federal government work together.

What we did, probably about a month ago, was bring the hospitality sector together. I think if you focus industry by industry and actually try to nail some of these things, you are going to get better results. With the round table we had in mid May, we had industry associations including AHA and restaurant and catering. We brought together about seven or eight local governments, their chief executives, which had, I guess, a higher concentration of hospitality in their local government areas.

We had the Small Business Commissioner, our CBS Commissioner. We brought in SA Health, Green Industries, SA Water and SafeWork because they are some of the touch points where there is this regulatory burden. It was important that we had federal presence as well, so we had a representative from the commonwealth Treasury and someone from the Small Business Policy branch. We also had Bruce Billson, who is the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, appear and talk to us as well. We are certainly taking that feedback on board and trying to come up with actual practical solutions to some of these issues.

On 1 July, we announced today, the second-hand motor vehicle amendments are commencing again. That work was part of the reform with the MTA on some of the red-tape reduction in that industry. I have worked very closely with the former federal small business minister on the National Small Business Strategy, and all of the states and territories and the commonwealth have committed to looking at red-tape reduction across all of our jurisdictions, so I look forward to seeing that work rolled out.

We have, with the Small Business Commissioner, the Small Business Friendly Council program, and a component of that is red-tape reduction looking at councils being able to reduce red tape in their particular local government area, so that work is being done. There is another issue that I think might address some of these issues. It will not fix everything but some of these issues are how businesses communicate with government. What you will see in this budget is a commitment and funding for a feasibility study for a small business to government portal.

What we really want to do is not have an IT project that does not achieve what it wants, so I think the feasibility study is going to be really important to narrow down what that can do. I am hoping that we can make some progress on data sharing between state and federal governments to make things easier for small business in communicating with government agencies. That work is being done and there is funding for that as well.

There is certainly a lot of practical work being done. It is front of mind on any law reform that I undertake in my other portfolios and making sure we are actually doing something practical. As I said, I have talked to many industry associations about this issue with small businesses. Every time we have a small business round table I think I sound like a broken record saying, 'Please give me three things we want to achieve in red-tape reduction.' Certainly we are making progress but, again, it is practical action that is important more than just words.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Just a supplementary to that: business confidence hit COVID era lows for the March quarter despite, obviously, Adelaide being in the middle of its events calendar.

The CHAIR: Which budget line are we talking about?

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 80, Small and Family Business, talking about programs. When you come to confidence levels, business confidence hit COVID era lows for the March quarter. What initiatives, if any, are there in the budget to address that confidence level and trying to increase that confidence?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I think there are a few things to think about with the particular state of business expectations you are referring to. One is the timing of when that was done, which was, from recollection, the week of or the week following the Trump tariff executive orders debacle and share markets tanking. That obviously had an effect on that.

What I think we have here in South Australia, when you compare us to other states, is that really we are in a good spot when you think of the Business Council saying we are the best place in the country to do business. When you consider some of what we have already done in terms of planning reform, and in terms of where we are on the national stage with our events and other things, yes, it is tough, but things are going better, I think, in South Australia than other states.

We have inflation getting under control on the national stage and interest rates dropping—that is going to help. We have some stability in the unemployment rate, which helps, and I think some of the things that we are doing to be able to support small businesses, our energy grants and other things to be able to deal with costs of business pressures will help confidence.

We have more businesses now than we did when we came into government. We are up to about 165,000 businesses, so we know that there is some confidence there, otherwise people would not be starting businesses. For example, in hospitality some of the data we have from the 2023-24 financial year shows that if you look at us compared to the rest of the country, about 28 per cent of all restaurants and cafes that were opened in Australia were opened in South Australia. I think that demonstrates that there is a level of confidence here. What happens in the rest of the world and the rest of Australia is obviously going to have an impact, but we are certainly putting every effort into making sure that our small businesses and family businesses are supported.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I refer you to the same budget volume, but if we go to page 89, when you talk about Program 3: Small and Family Business, the objectives you state include 'To support small and family businesses in South Australia to grow, innovate and take advantage of new market opportunities'.

You made a point about external pressures, and there are many of those; in fact, they may have even shifted the federal election dynamic too. But coming to vacancy rates, even if you look at today's paper, obviously these things move from time to time but in two of Adelaide's busiest retail strips, the Parade, Norwood vacancy rate jumped from a record low of 2.6 per cent in October to 6.6 per cent, and then on Prospect Road, some vacancies rose from 2.6 per cent to 7.9 per cent.

In your view, why are we seeing such a significant increase in what look to be business closures or vacancies under the government at the moment? Have you introduced any programs to address those failures and those vacancies? I know in the past governments of both persuasions have looked at specific programs. Have you considered those? Do you have any of those in the budget at all?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: The current levels of vacancy rates I would say are quite moderate. I know I have spoken to Mayor Robert Bria, for example, and I think there is data showing that businesses in the Norwood Payneham & St Peters local council area have the lowest rate—I am going to misquote that and I will correct it if it is wrong—of business closures anywhere in Australia. He is really proud of that.

We have a lot going for us here in South Australia and we do have a growing business sector. We have gone up from June last year to June this year. In June last year, we had 159,578 businesses; we now have 164,495 businesses. We continue to grow. We had, as I said, the strongest growth rate in the country for restaurants and cafes for the 2023-24 financial year, and the two areas you are talking about are very hospitality heavy, so that is a positive thing.

We have a relatively stable business environment in South Australia. Traditionally, we have had lower entry rates and lower exit rates as well, but we do have high survival rates, and that is something that I think is pretty positive here. The exit rate for 2023-24, for example, in South Australia, was 12.6 per cent, which was the equal lowest of any state, certainly lower than the national rate of 14 per cent. For those areas where there is some increase in vacancies, I suspect they will be filled up pretty quickly. I know a number of landlords in those particular areas and I think they are pretty positive.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: It sounds like some helpful information from your adviser there; I am happy to hear it.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We were talking about our energy grants and things, which I am sure you are coming to at some point.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: You can kick off now, if you want.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: What we did that was very well taken up by the hospitality sector in particular was our round 2 of what is now the Business Growth Fund. They were energy efficiency grants, originally announced at $20 million. They got taken up really positively. We have had over a thousand businesses that have been approved to get those grants. They were grants from $2,500 up to $50,000 dollar-for-dollar matching.

There were a lot of hospitality venues. For example, there was one that I went to visit down at Henley, Secrets by the Sea. They already had solar panels, but they used the grant to install a battery that was saving them, in one year, I think as much as what their dollar investment was. The benefit of these energy efficiency grants is the year-on-year savings, which is fantastic. We have saved businesses—someone will give me a figure per annum and I will get you that figure in a minute.

In this year's budget we have extended that with another round of energy efficiency grants. They are now going up to $75,000, so capturing more medium-sized businesses as well. Those guidelines are now being finalised by Treasury, with the Department of State Development, and we are hoping to get those rolling out for businesses come July. The first round of energy efficiency grants that we did with our investments is saving businesses $24.24 million a year each and every year. That is a pretty incredible cost-saving measure that we have been able to work with businesses on to get that program up and running and really address their issues. So, there is a lot being done to be able to address some of those confidence issues and help them with the cost of doing business.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: How many business closures have there been the last financial year?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I have data for 2023-24, the last lot of data I have, where we had entries in South Australia of 24,937 and exits of 20,080. We have entry rates of 15.6 per cent, which improved from 14.5 per cent in the 2022-23 year, exit rates relatively stable at 12.6 per cent for 2023-24. It was 12.5 per cent for the year before, with survival rates again relatively stable at 66.5 per cent. It was 67.1 per cent the year before, after four years. It is a pretty stable business environment in South Australia.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I know you have this Women in Business program, which I think seems to be a very good thing, page 89. What do you do for targeted programs for young people, young entrepreneurs?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: The Women in Business program in particular is open to any age bracket and we do have young and old entrepreneurs getting involved in that. It has been an incredibly successful program. It was an election commitment and, since we started it in I think it was November 2022, we have had 3,592 participants.

We have various parts of the program. There is a foundations program, which has been really popular. I think we have had 1,139 participants in that up to 31 March 2025. The first round of that program initially started with four hours of business mentoring, but we heard very loud and clear that the mentoring was really appreciated, so we have been able to extend that to six hours of mentoring, plus all the workshops and networking events that go with that.

We have the advisory program, which is really for higher growth boost businesses, and that has also been really popular. We have the Connecting Women in Business program available for all ages, and we know that has been incredibly popular, with 1,800 participants in that. When I go to these events I see women entrepreneurs, young and old, attending.

A particular program is being run by the Business Chamber, the SAYES program, which is being funded out of the Deputy Premier's portfolio but is a young entrepreneurs program in particular as well. Again, lots of support for our young entrepreneurs and something I am really keen to see us progress as a state is to be the place of entrepreneurship.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Sir, I ask about a matter dear to your heart and mine: Whyalla, if I may. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 90. The Whyalla business support is noted as impacting Activity indicators. How many Whyalla businesses has the minister assisted as part of the Whyalla Small Local Business Support Grant program?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That grant program was $10,000 grants and has had a budget of $3 million. At the moment we have approved 57 of those applications, and paid out 55 of them. Certainly, for anyone coming through the door we have been able to turn those approvals around pretty quickly and been able to support those Whyalla businesses. I have been on the ground a number of times down there talking to small businesses, making sure our programs are what they need and making sure those grant programs are what they need.

Certainly, a lot of work has been done to support small businesses directly impacted by the GFG insolvency but also broader main street businesses that have been impacted. I am sure the Chair has his own views, but I would say that the most recent times I have been down it has been a lot more positive. I think they are quite relieved with where things are going.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: So two are unpaid. I imagine that is still being processed. How many of those Whyalla businesses remain operational after? Do you have any data on that?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I do not think I have any data, other than to say I think there are 635 small businesses operating in Whyalla. I do not have any data about particular insolvency numbers at this stage. The chief executive said these grants are so recent that he would say pretty much all of them would still be operating.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I will not be asking about cuttlefish today. Has the grant program concluded—

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I would not know about that.

The CHAIR: Somehow I do not think there is a relevant budget line for this.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: That is right. You are onto it, sir. Has that grant program concluded or will it remain open while the future of the steelworks remains in the state that it is in at the moment?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We have extended that. I think it was due to close at the end of May, and we have extended that to 30 June. The team from the Office for Small and Family Business went out there, probably a month ago, and literally walked the streets promoting the program and promoting the fact that these grants are available to small businesses in Whyalla. I appreciate their work in this space as well.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: What information on the status of the steelworks is the minister privy to that, I suppose, gives confidence that the 2025-26 budget is sufficient to deliver the small business support that the businesses need, given the current state of play?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I do not think I can answer that question with any specificity.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I will go to Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 89. Coming back to the objectives of the office in terms of small and family business, the objective is to support small and family businesses in the state to grow, innovate and take advantage of new market opportunities. Does the minister have the great pleasure of meeting with the Premier's Delivery Unit around the state's housing outcomes, given the prevalence of many small and family businesses in the construction industry?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Have I met with the Premier's Delivery Unit about housing policy? No, I have not.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Does the minister or the office have to provide KPIs to the PDU in respect of her portfolio?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: On our election commitments, they have, and they have all been delivered in the small business portfolio.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: So any KPIs that were given have all been delivered?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Absolutely, yes.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Was the minister or the office provided with any directions from the PDU, apart from 'deliver our election promises'?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Not specifically.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Not specifically, okay. I will move to Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 89, the Agency Statements, which highlights that the government implemented a Small Business Strategy 2023-2030 through delivering programs, resources and support services in 2024-25. How many programs did that strategy deliver last year?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Our strategy, when we released it at about this time in 2023, was off the back of some pretty intensive consultation with the small business sector. What you see in that strategy and what we have committed to rolling out is really what small businesses want from us and what they told us they wanted. There was originally $14 million attached to it, but very pleasingly I am able to say that there is now $22 million attached to that strategy. That includes the expansion that is in this budget for the Small Business Strategy, another $3.2 million, which is very pleasing.

In terms of the actual programs, what we did with the strategy was break it up into six key themes. The first one was around strengthening business capability. I guess, with my former hat on, often seeing small businesses where the business owner did not necessarily have the business skills to run the business was a challenge. That was something we not only heard but I know from my experience; if we can shift that dial, that is what we are focused on. For that, we have rolled out the Small Business Fundamentals program.

We have the annual Small Business Week, and this year's Small Business Week is coming from 22 to 26 September. We have dedicated Small Business Support Officers in the Office of Small and Family Business, and I would describe it as almost a concierge service. If there are questions about any of our programs or if they are having difficulties working out where to go in government, the Small Business Support Officers are there. They are broken up, and there are dedicated Small Business Support Officers for regions throughout South Australia, so they get to know their particular businesses as well. We have also been supporting our regional chambers of commerce under that business capability theme.

We also have a mental health and wellbeing program. We know that when we were doing the consultation, from memory it was something like 67 per cent of small business owners said their mental health had been impacted by running their businesses. Mental health is really important, and we are running programs, including one, for example, with MBA, which has done a really great job with their RISE program.

We have a digital capability program as well, a sustainability support program, which is being run by 2XE, a South Australian business. That has worked in really well with the energy grants as well, making sure that businesses are able to be more sustainable. To some extent we know that from an environmental perspective that is important, particularly if you want to go into markets like Europe, but I often talk about it as a cost-saving measure and I think that gets businesses more interested.

We have particular information and resources for the CALD community, so our resources are available in languages other than English. In the last theme we talked about improving access to government services, and we certainly now have a much stronger small business lens on our government decisions. We are working on the procurement piece as well, making sure our small businesses, our local businesses, are winning more government work. Most of that work has been done by the Industry Advocate who reports to the Treasurer, and they do excellent meet-the-buyer events—I think there is one coming up in July—and some other workshops to help small businesses.

There is certainly a lot happening, and a lot of our programs have been very popular. I think we are up to just over 11,000 businesses that have engaged in our programs in a pretty short amount of time, so it is good to see those programs being taken up.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Moving on to Budget Paper 5, Budget Measures Statement, page 8. We mentioned this before, that the government has announced the Business Growth Fund, and Energy Efficiency Grants round 2 is a key initiative. You spoke about some of the businesses that have used this. I am just curious: do you have any data on what was the total amount by which businesses were actually able to reduce their energy bills following the grant? Have you got any data on that at all?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We have had 1,032 grants, which is estimated to provide an energy cost saving across all of those of $24.24 million per annum. It is an energy saving of some 58,872 megawatts. The applicants themselves, during the application process, go through a calculator, essentially, that determines what their savings would be. Under that investment from the state government we are saving $24.24 million each and every year for small businesses through that program.

That was round 2 of what is now called the Business Growth Fund. Of course, we have the new one that will start in July. That will have grants of up to $75,000. The previous one was up to $50,000, so I suspect we might see greater energy savings, and that is a very good thing for our businesses in South Australia.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 90, workforce summary, shows FTE staffing for small and family business dropping from 21.4 FTEs to 16.1 FTEs by June 2025. Why has there been what looks to be a significant cut of FTEs? What has been cut there and why?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That is because of the people in the grant administration team for the Whyalla support package and some of the energy grants—Whyalla has 3.6 FTEs coming out, and the energy efficiency grants team has two FTEs coming out. That is the basis of the 5.3 reduction.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: So they have been moved from your department into Whyalla; is that what you are saying?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Those people were seconded in while those grant programs are running. We just talked about the Whyalla one that closes on 30 June, so the funding for those grant assessors is winding down. Obviously, we will have grant people coming in now for the next round, so we might end up with the same result at the end of the day next financial year.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 90, in terms of number of businesses provided with solutions to support their growth and competitiveness. The 2024-25 target was 6,400, but the estimated result was 8,480 businesses assisted. What counts as a solution in that context? What drove the much-higher-than-target reach, other than that people obviously need assistance?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: You are looking at the number of businesses provided with solutions—that target?

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Yes.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: They are the engagements with our business support officers within the Office for Small and Family Business. It also counts people who have attended our round tables and our programs. It also includes in that number small and family businesses that have received a grant from the Office for Small and Family Business. The big jump over the target for the estimated result is largely around Whyalla and the energy efficiency grants, and the Business Creditor Assistance Scheme for Whyalla is included in those numbers as well. That is why you will see the increase from the target to get an estimated result of 8,480.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I refer to Agency Statement, Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 59, statement of cash outflows, Office of the Small Business Commissioner. The estimated result for 2024-25 was $2.277 million. I am just curious: how many disputes, inquiries did the office receive in 2024-25 in relation to roadworks disruption?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Roadworks disruption?

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Yes.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: More broadly, not a particular—I will just check. We will take that on notice. I am not sure if we will be able to identify, but if we can, we will let you know.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Thank you. Also, if you may, how does that volume of disputes or inquiries received compare going back, say, two or three years—whatever you have on file?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I will check what we can provide and provide that to you.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 90, under activity indicators. Budget Paper 4 shows 110,000 as the 2025-26 projection for number of businesses provided with base level information resources, up from 90,995 reached in 2024-25. My question is: what types of base level information resources are being counted there?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That includes people going to the business.sa.gov.au website for information. It includes searches of the Australian Business Licence and Information Service (ABLIS) to get information on business licensing regulations, council approvals and compliance in South Australia. So it is, as it is described, that base-level information—people getting information on various grants and things like that. I guess what we have seen is that, over the last few years, there has certainly been more and more engagement with the Office for Small and Family Business. As more businesses get to know about the services that we provide, they are becoming much more engaged, so we are certainly pleased with those numbers and the increases.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: Why were fewer businesses reached in 2024-25 than 2023-24, given increased FTE supplies and services and also employee expenses?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That was the River Murray flood data that was coming in in 2023-24 that is no longer there.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: So you would not say that the department has become less productive. You would attribute a lot of that resource to the floods?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Certainly, to the floods in 2023-24.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: What action is undertaken to ensure critical information is actually reaching the businesses that it needs to and is there any assurance that it is not just, say, 110,000 businesses that small and family business plans to just collect emails? What are the performance metrics that are in place to ensure quality and utility of support as opposed to a volume metric?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I do not know if you have had a chance to look at, in particular, the website—

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I have.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: There is some very good, user-friendly information. I think I was fairly adamant early on that we made the language business-friendly and some of the information that is on there I think is very useful. We have Small Business Week coming up, as I said. Some of our programs will be, for example, webinars and podcasts and they will be on that website, so we are certainly making sure we have very good information available to our small businesses through that and through our business support officers, either in person or by phone. As I said, the increase that we are seeing I think is that people are making use of that information and appreciating it.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, page 90, under Activity indicators, 'No. of businesses provided with base level information resources'. Is the minister able to provide any data on client satisfaction or service quality regarding the office's programs? For example, does the office survey participating businesses in programs like you mentioned, the Women in Business Program, or recipients of grants to gauge their satisfaction and usefulness of the support?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We do. In particular, for the website we track how long people are staying on the website. That gives an indication of how useful they are finding that information. We keep a track of that. We get particular feedback from all of our program providers in terms of numbers going through and what the benefits are.

I can tell you about the Women in Business Program that you touched on. We have, for example, for the Behind Closed Doors advisory program. More than half have reported measurable revenue growth. We track that data. We get specific feedback. I can give you some, for example, from Connecting Women in Business. We had Anna Dillon, Star Lane Chauffeurs, describe the Women in the West Connecting Business event as empowering. She described the energy at the event as uplifting. Sue Bromley, NeuroChangeSolutions, reported a rise in her confidence, a rise in her visibility through LinkedIn and that she successfully secured some council funding.

Daniela Carbone, Rejuv-Innate mentoring, said business tools that she had access to were invaluable to her as a Muslim woman with her advice to, 'Stay learning, apply what you gain consistently and keep going. You have got this.' That was her feedback from the Adelaide Business Hub program. We continue to get that feedback. There are case studies of people who have gone through our programs. I think we have short clips on the website as well, if the member is interested in having a look at those to get feedback.

The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: I probably have time for one more. I refer to Budget Paper 5, Budget Measures Statement, page 8, just coming back to some of those grants in terms of Powering Business Grants. Is the minister able to provide details on the outcomes of that round; for example, average grant size, examples of upgrades funded, and any data on how those businesses actually did reduce their energy costs?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I can. In our regular meetings I have a chat I go through, and I feel like we might not have it right now. We might be able to take that on notice and provide that to you.

The CHAIR: Thank you, minister. The allotted time having expired, I declare the examination of the Small Business Commissioner and the Office for Small and Family Business complete. The examination of proposed payments and Administered Items for the Attorney-General's Department are adjourned until later today. The proposed payments and Administered Items for the Department of State Development are now referred to Estimates Committee A.


Membership:

Mr Batty substituted for Hon. V.A. Tarzia.

Mr Teague substituted for Mr Pederick.


Departmental Advisers:

Ms C. Mealor, Chief Executive, Attorney-General's Department.

Mr A. Swanson, Chief Financial Officer, Attorney-General's Department.

Mr B. Humphrey, Commissioner, Consumer and Business Services.

Mr D. Corcoran, Director, Financial Services, Attorney-General's Department.

Ms F. Gowen, Director, Business Services and Transformation, Consumer and Business Services.

Mr J. Lambert, Director, Reform and Specialty Compliance, Consumer and Business Services.

Ms M. O'Sullivan, Assistant Director, Regulatory Services, Consumer and Business Services.

Mr M. Dengler, Principal Policy Officer, Regulatory Services, Consumer and Business Services.

Mr J. Lai, Principal Adviser, Budgeting, Attorney-General's Department.


The CHAIR: For the portfolio of Consumer and Business Services, the minister appearing is the Minister for Consumer and Business Affairs. I advise that the proposed payments remain open for examination. I call on the minister to make a statement, if she so wishes, and to introduce her advisers.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I will make some introductions to start with. I welcome Mr Brett Humphrey, our Commissioner for Consumer and Business Services, to his first estimates. I have on my left the Chief Executive of AGD, Ms Caroline Mealor; and Mr Andrew Swanson, the Chief Financial Officer of AGD. Behind me, from CBS we have Mr Jonathan Lambert, Ms Melanie O'Sullivan, Ms Fiona Gowen and Mr Matthias Dengler, and from AGD we have Mr Darren Corcoran.

Again, I will not make an opening statement, other than to thank AGD and CBS for the enormous amount of work that has gone into preparing for the estimates and for the enormous amount of work in supporting our businesses and consumers. In the last 12 months they have done a sterling job.

Mr BATTY: I might kick off with a few questions on illicit tobacco. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 45. How many illegal tobacco stores are operating in South Australia?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I am not able to provide that figure. Obviously, they are illegal. It is not like there is a registration system for illegal tobacco stores, so I am not able to answer that. I think it may have come from SAPOL—earlier on, when we took over, I think there was a mention of some 200. That came from SAPOL, but again that is a guess. Obviously, without some kind of system where they are telling us where they are operating and who they are, we cannot provide that information.

Mr BATTY: So SAPOL estimate that there are 200, or over 200, illegal tobacco stores but CBS does not have an estimate themselves?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We are working on that estimate.

Mr BATTY: So you are working off the SAPOL 200 estimate?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We are working on that estimate, but I cannot confirm if that is an accurate estimate. We do not have the data behind that.

Mr BATTY: Is there any way of projecting how many stores there might be?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I really do not think there is a way of working that out. We obviously keep a track of what is reported through to us. The public has been very good at reporting illicit tobacco and vape stores through to CBS and to Crime Stoppers. We keep all that intel so we have those reports coming through, but beyond that we cannot provide anything more accurate.

Mr BATTY: How is it that the police can arrive at a figure of 200, but CBS cannot undertake that task?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I am not sure on what basis SAPOL work that out. You might want to ask the police minister that.

Mr BATTY: Page 47 has some of the activity indicators, and we saw 500 premises inspected for compliance. Of those 500 inspections, how many were found not to be in compliance?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I will take that on notice and come back to you if we are able to provide that information. Some of those inspections were at the same store over and over. We have seen in some cases breaches with stores opening up after a 72-hour closure notice. We did some in the CBD last week where they now have 28-day closures imposed on them. They previously had the 72-hour ones and reopened. So it is not necessarily 520 individual stores that are all shop premises that have been looked at. We will get what we can and provide that to you.

Mr BATTY: Do you have a rough idea of what the compliance is like? Is it that most are complying, or more than half are not, or nearly all 500 are not?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I would say more of our inspections are for unlicensed premises, so we are sending more people out to look at unlicensed premises. Therefore, I would say a large proportion of those would not be complying, and that is just where we are dedicating resources to.

Mr BATTY: Sure. What happens following that inspection when a store is found not to be compliant? What action do you take?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: It depends on what is found, of course. It can be anything from an expiation. We now have available to us, I think as of last week, 72-hour closure notices. At 28 days, I can go to the court to get long-term closure orders. That was up to six months until the new legislation came in. It is now up to 12 months with an order from the Magistrates Court. We have had a couple of those go through the courts. There is a prosecution on foot at the moment. All of those levers are available to the commissioner and to me.

Mr BATTY: How many long-term closure orders have you applied for?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Two.

Mr BATTY: Why have you only applied for two long-term closure orders?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Those provisions only came into effect I think very late last year. It might have been December.

Mr BATTY: Was that the extra 12 months as opposed to six months or the long term?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: No, that was when we started in six months.

Mr BATTY: So in the last six months, you have only applied for two long-term closure orders?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That is correct.

Mr BATTY: How many short-term closure orders have you applied for or made?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I have a figure for up until 31 May, which was 36, and I have done several since then, so we are probably at or about 40 at the moment.

Mr BATTY: If you are doing 500 inspections, and the majority are not compliant, and you are estimating there are 200 illegal shops operating, why have you only acted with respect to 40 of them?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: As I said, some of those inspections are inspections of the same store. The ones we did in Rundle Street, for example, that we went to last week, they obviously were inspected, found not to be compliant. They would have got expiation and 72-hour closure notices. We went back to them. They were still open. They have a 28-day closure order now, and I think we might be applying for long-term closure, potentially on one of them.

Mr HUMPHREY: Yes, on at least one. The closure order also only came into effect in December last year, so we had five months of inspections without having that closure order put in place.

Mr BATTY: Do you think you need to be doing more inspections?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: With that $16 million that was in last year's budget we stood up a team very quickly in Consumer and Business Services. It was a whole new team and some pretty prompt recruitment was done. It takes time to build up a team and put processes in place, so I think they have done an extraordinary job.

We have taken about $34 million worth of product off the streets. We work really closely with SAPOL, and they have made 30 arrests. Between SAPOL and Consumer and Business Services we obviously have to work with the federal government. One of the issues that we do not have levers over, but Border Force do, is getting the product into Australia, so all of that needs to happen. We realise it is a significant issue. We know organised crime is a big part of that. I think someone from Border Force early on estimated about 75 per cent of the market is controlled by organised crime. It is a challenge and we are certainly doing all that we can.

What we are doing, compared to other states, is that we recently had a national scorecard from a national body and we were given an A+. We were leading the nation in what we were doing here for tobacco and vapes. I had a completely separate arts ministers' meeting a couple of weeks ago and the one thing that people wanted to talk to me about—even though it was an arts ministers' meeting—was about our work in tobacco and vapes.

I think the team has done an extraordinary job in what they have done in the past almost 12 months since they took it on. I think we have demonstrated that, as a government, we are happy to demonstrate, through changes in law, how seriously we are taking this and what we are willing to do to tackle this problem in South Australia. The rest of the states in the rest of the country have their eyes on us and they are following suit.

Mr BATTY: I think the changes in law are one thing, but then you have to use the power as well. Do you think that applying for only two long-term closure orders is an A+ effort?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That was independently assessed and that was what we were given—an A+, yes.

Mr BATTY: Do you agree with that assessment?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Yes, I think the team is doing an extraordinary job in very difficult circumstances.

Mr BATTY: Do you think making only 40 short-term closure orders in the context of 500 inspections and over 200 illegal tobacco shops is an A+ effort?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: In the context of only having those powers in the past six months, yes.

Mr BATTY: Why are you planning on only making the same number of inspections in the coming year?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That is what the team has estimated with the resources they have, and what time it takes. It is very much through space. We get the intel coming from the public, intel is shared between SAPOL and CBS, and that is what we expect in terms of the inspections coming forward off the back of what we have seen in the past 12 months. That seems a reasonable amount and I am happy with the commissioner's estimate of that.

Mr BATTY: It is the same as the past 12 months, where you described it as sort of just getting off the ground. You mentioned resourcing, is there a resourcing problem?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: No, there is a team of some 20 staff in the new tobacco task force within CBS, so those resources are there. I suspect what we will see are more resources put into pursuing prosecutions and it takes time to prepare those briefs, so I am happy with the commissioner's estimates for the next 12 months. Again, we are certainly throwing everything we have at this problem. We do not underestimate it but we are certainly making inroads.

Mr BATTY: Do you have an estimate of how many short-term closure orders you will make over the next 12 months?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: No, we do not have one that was provided.

Mr BATTY: Why not?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Again, it would depend on what the commissioner and his team find when they are going out and doing these inspections. We might find a whole lot of new compliance when they realise they are facing penalties of up to $6½ million.

Mr BATTY: Maybe. Do you have an estimate on how many long-term closure orders you will make over the next 12 months?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: The same answer for that one: we do not have an estimate that has been provided.

Mr BATTY: How many CBS compliance officers do you currently have working on illegal tobacco?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We have 20 FTEs at the moment in the tobacco and vaping team, from directors, compliance officers, operations officers—there is a whole range of people in that team who, again, are doing some excellent work in very difficult circumstances.

Mr BATTY: Are there any vacancies on that team?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Two vacancies.

Mr BATTY: How many times has the maximum penalty been applied to people found not to be in compliance?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: A maximum penalty would be imposed by the courts. As I said, there is one prosecution before the courts at the moment and more to come.

Mr BATTY: So no prosecution has concluded yet?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: No, that obviously is a court process that will take some time.

Mr BATTY: Of the 40-odd short-term closures that you made, how many have reopened?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We will have to take that on notice.

Mr BATTY: Do you not think that is something we should be tracking carefully? If there are 40 that we know have been operating illegal tobacco shops, and it has reached a threshold where you have shut them down for 72 hours, do we not go and check to see if they have set up shop again a few days later?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We do go and check again and that has been done. As I said, there is one I was standing at the front of in Rundle Street last week. But in terms of providing that information to you right now, I will have to take it on notice.

Mr BATTY: How many complaints or reports about illegal tobacco have been received by CBS over the last year?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We will need to take that on notice as well.

Mr BATTY: How many of the compliance inspections involved children in sting operations?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: None.

Mr BATTY: Has the minister taken any action with respect to the tobacco store in Stonyfell in my electorate?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I might get the commissioner to answer that one.

Mr HUMPHREY: I am aware of that store. That is one of numerous stores on our radar. I am aware we have attended that store and it is still being assessed and is on our list.

Mr BATTY: When you say it is still being assessed, what does that mean?

Mr HUMPHREY: The battle of the illicit tobacco store is a large one and there are many different ways that we can tackle it. We have an assessments team that gathers the information and we work with SAPOL to determine what is appropriate action for the store, depending on the information that we have and can gather. That can lead to everything from working with SAPOL on more serious organised crime convictions down to us attending the store and doing a search and maybe issuing an expiation notice to the shopkeeper as one of the many tools in the tool kit, and a closure order. So the shops get assessed, they get categorised and then the team work on them based on where we think it should go with the evidence we have at the time.

Mr BATTY: Is that shop selling illicit tobacco?

Mr HUMPHREY: I am not aware of—

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We are not able to talk about specifics when it is part of an investigation.

Mr BATTY: This is a store I have been corresponding with you about for over a year now, raising concerns about it, particularly given it is right next door to a school. We have talked about some of the specifics just now. When will the assessment be complete and an action be taken?

Mr HUMPHREY: The assessments are ongoing. Obviously, information is being received every day, so an assessment that is made and finalised may change with information we get from members of the public through our online reporting, our officers out in the field viewing stores and seeing what is happening, and also information from SAPOL. So, as a general rule, it is a moving feast and is ongoing. All the stores are prioritised and the team is working really hard to go out and visit as many stores as they can and take the appropriate action.

Mr BATTY: How do you prioritise that task, particularly in circumstances where you say you have enough resources dedicated to it? If we have a store where numerous complaints have been made that is operating right next door to a school, what further evidence needs to be gathered before it is shut down?

Mr HUMPHREY: Without talking about specific stores, the illicit tobacco and vaping task force is out nearly every day raiding stores and applying for closure orders, as we have done numerous of in the last two weeks under the 28-day closure and, as I said, supporting SAPOL with those organised crime investigations.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: It is definitely the best approach working with SAPOL, I would say; working very closely with SAPOL on the Project Eclipse team in SAPOL to determine which stores are a priority. There are multiple complaints come through on particular stores right across the state, and CBS and SAPOL are working really closely to make sure we are targeting the highest risk.

Mr TEAGUE: I might just chime in there, with reference to Budget Paper 5 at page 14, the measures for additional resources. We there read that there is provision over the forward estimates for 2025-26 of just short of $2 million and then $2.3 million the following year, with 16 full-time equivalent employees.

The note to the table refers to that funding growing volumes of work in what I read to be three categories: first, compliance/enforcement; second, births, death and marriages; and third, regulatory activities. I have in mind compliance/enforcement perhaps, and regulatory activities that apply to the work the member for Bragg has just been asking about and the anticipated volume of increase of that work?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I am very pleased that we were able to get this additional resourcing for CBS—it is almost $10 million over the forward estimates, as you can see in that budget line. We have seen increasing workloads in various parts of CBS, so that breakdown in terms of FTEs that you see of 16 is such that 12 will go to the compliance and enforcement area, of which the tobacco task force forms part. They will be able to share in those resources.

We have two FTEs going into Births, Deaths and Marriages. We have certainly seen an increasing volume and increasing complexity in the work that is being done by the Births, Deaths and Marriages team, and two people in regulatory services as well. I am sure that support will be much appreciated.

In terms of compliance and enforcement, as I said, it does capture the tobacco team but it also, hopefully, will allow us to increase the number of casino and gambling inspectors and investigators, which is important for tobacco but also some of our building and other priority areas. What we have seen with the volume is that there would be benefit in having resources allocated to the assessments and registration team, where people come through the front door to make sure we are assessing those as quickly as possible and pointing them in the right direction in terms of investigations.

Product Safety is another area that will benefit from increasing resources out of that budget bid. Although CBS do an extraordinary amount of work, I think they would certainly benefit from that additional resource coming in.

Mr TEAGUE: Bearing in mind the benefit then of that breakdown, if 12 of those FTEs are to be applied towards compliance and enforcement and that that is largely on this vapes work that has been going on, how is that to be broken down? Do we anticipate a steep rise in the number of closures, orders, prosecutions, those sorts of things that we have seen in only small numbers so far?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We do have funding for 22 people—we have 20 in there at the moment. I do not think the commissioner has allocated between different areas where that resource is going, but we will start doing that work to make sure it is ready for 1 July when the additional money comes in.

Mr TEAGUE: In terms of that 12 again on that compliance enforcement work, how much, if any, of that is about employing people responsible for warehousing of seized products and how is that then to be managed over that period of time?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: There will be very little impact, I am advised, on staffing for storage.

Mr TEAGUE: Alright then. Continuing to bear in mind that breakdown, I am curious as to the next line in the narrative, which indicates that the funding for the initiative over those four years—just short of $2 million, rising to nearly $2.5 million—will be cost-recovered from 2027-28. Bearing in mind that there are only two additional FTEs for Births, Deaths and Marriages, is it to be read as that each one will derive a proportion of the cost recovery, or is the bulk of the cost recovery to come from the 12 who are going to be in the compliance and enforcement space? Do we break down that cost recovery according to the same divvying up of the FTE proportions?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We have not made those decisions yet. CBS will consider what options are available to them to offset those additional costs. That will not start until 1 July 2027, but I think you will see from the income section for Consumer and Business Services that there has been increasing income due to the volume of work. For example, we have gone up $2.3 million from 2023-24 through to the 2024-25 year. We are expecting another $1.5 million of income into the 2025-26 year, so to some extent that cost recovery is through what is happening already, but as we get closer to July 2027 CBS and the department will be making those decisions and making recommendations to us.

Mr TEAGUE: Is it correct then to read it as really an accounting exercise that is going to be applied in the broad? How do we read it then? There is no cost recovery for this year or next year. Is that just providing extra headroom for CBS and then there is a sort of operating efficiency that is built into the cost-recovery accounting for the next two years?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I think your initial statement was right, that there is a broad-based approach to work out what the best way is to make those numbers work. I am certainly working with Mr Swanson and Ms Mealor and the commissioner as we get closer to that timeframe.

Mr TEAGUE: I am sure you are in good hands in that respect, minister, but just so we are clear then: it is not possible, therefore, is it to read the measure as somehow leading towards some novel means of applying cost-recovery that we do not know about yet? It is just an accounting measure? What is the difference between it being a two-year initiative and a four-year initiative with cost recovery in years 3 and 4? I do not know the answer to that question.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: As I said, those decisions have not been made as to what will happen in 2027 onwards for those cost-recovery years. That work will be done. I do not think you can read into it that two FTEs in Births, Deaths and Marriages mean there is a proportionate increase in Births, Deaths and Marriages fees. We certainly have not made those decisions. I think we will take a broad approach as to what the best way is to allocate that.

Mr TEAGUE: In all seriousness, is it just pointing—

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I am serious.

Mr TEAGUE: Is it just pointing to a growth in CBS, in that there is a measure for additional FTE? It is not cost-recovered for two years, and then it is cost-recovered after that, so there is a growth in the whole scene and that is what that is kind of depicting. It otherwise might be described as a budget measure for additional resources for a couple of years.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We have seen a growth in the activity levels within CBS. You can see that in the income line. You can see that through the work the CBS has done, taking on more responsibilities—tobacco and vaping, for example. As I said, unfortunately I cannot specifically answer your question as to what will happen in July 2027, but that work will be done. I am quite pleased that there has been no cost recovery for the next two years and we will certainly step some decisions along the way as to what happens in the 2027 financial year.

Mr TEAGUE: But nothing earmarked for the time being, and nothing to be drawn from the proportions of the FTEs?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Nothing earmarked, that is correct.

Mr TEAGUE: Back to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, the main one, page 45, and the first line of the first dot point on CBS aims regarding the ensuring of compliance, including in relation to gambling at the Casino. The Hon. Brian Martin, AO KC, has undertaken an investigation into the SkyCity Entertainment Group. Is it correct that the review is now complete and with government?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That is correct. The commissioner received the report, I think, on 20 May. It is quite detailed, quite complex, and the commissioner is working through that with the assistance of Crown to determine what the next steps are.

Mr TEAGUE: Can the minister give the committee some indication of the nature of the report's outcomes or recommendations?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Unfortunately, I am prevented from doing that.

Mr TEAGUE: Is there anything that sounds in terms of the budget, in terms of response to it? Is there any budget provision? In terms of responding to the report, is there anything provided for in terms of the CBS budget?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: No, there is not.

Mr TEAGUE: Is there to be a release of the report, and is there any other future action that can be anticipated at this stage that might sound in some draw on the budget for CBS?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: At this stage, as I said, the commissioner is considering his response to the Hon. Brian Martin's report. That will include any decision around disciplinary issues, any conditions on the licence, any other statutory decision-making. That is being done very closely with Crown advice. On that basis I am not able to share any further on what is included in Mr Martin's report or what the commissioner's decision-making might be from here on in.

Mr TEAGUE: While we are there, on the same page a bit further down, in highlights, the third dot point, the third of those highlights for 2024-25 is 'Continued to implement residential tenancies reforms'. What money has been spent in that implementation, and what money is in the budget for the continuation of that implementation?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We had additional funding allocated in the 2023-24 Mid-Year Budget. It was $2 million per annum, and that provided up to 23 FTEs initially with 12 FTEs ongoing. The work to roll out those measures certainly took a lot of resources, and the team did an excellent job rolling that out and communicating with stakeholders through that 2024-25 year.

Mr TEAGUE: What about the year ahead?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Those 12 FTEs are continuing in the years ahead.

Mr TEAGUE: What is the nature of that work now for the year ahead?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: It is certainly around assisting both renters and landlords in compliance issues around, for example, rent bidding. There have been a number of complaints around advertising properties within a range, whereas our reform requires a price to be fixed. It is those sorts of measures, including dealing with bonds, for example. We have had an internal review now being undertaken on any changes that might be required in the regulations.

We will have to remake the Residential Tenancies Regulations by 1 September 2025, so we are considering any issues that have been brought to us by various stakeholders that might come about through that. That work is happening at the moment. Again, it is really compliance and enforcement, and educating and supporting both landlords and tenants with what were really significant changes. But I think they have been implemented quite smoothly over the last year or so.

Mr TEAGUE: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, but back to page 15. I will ask some questions about the first of the existing projects, which is the improved digital systems. Before I do, just because it is immediately above it, there is a new project of Consumer and Business Services fit-out, and it is $560,000 there. Can the minister explain what that is all about?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Certainly. That is additional funding to make sure that the new staff at CBS are able to be housed in their new office space. So that is fit-out work for CBS to make sure we have the team there in the environment.

Mr TEAGUE: So we see that in the third line, the investing payments line in Budget Paper 5, page 14.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: $560,000.

Mr TEAGUE: Is that $560,000 for general office fit-out?

Mr HUMPHREY: To increase the spaces for the extra staff.

Mr TEAGUE: Bearing in mind the breakdown of FTEs the minister has described, there are 12 more in Compliance and Enforcement; two at Birth, Deaths and Marriages; and two in terms of regulatory activities. It is not as though you are just fitting out one new office space. Is there any actual new office area? Is it a matter of fitting people into the existing areas where those folks are working?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: It is all in Chesser House on Grenfell Street. They will be remaining there. It is making sure that accommodation is fit for purpose for the new staff.

Mr TEAGUE: So there is no particular item of any significance among that?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: No, unless the commissioner wants to add anything.

Mr HUMPHREY: The only thing is that it is about fitting the people into the space we have. There is not ongoing cost of increased rent, no extra floor or extra building required for any extra people. It is about utilising the space we currently have to fit the extra people.

Mr TEAGUE: And no $20,000 desks or anything like that?

Mr HUMPHREY: No, I am afraid not.

Mr TEAGUE: Moving to the existing projects, the first of them, we see what looks to be completed, according to its estimated completion in June—so now—the improved digital systems. There is no more money allocated for that project. Is that now complete, up and running, not requiring any further resourcing?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: That improved digital systems project relates to the bonds upgrade project that is largely complete. I think there are a couple of issues being worked through at the moment in terms of enhancements of that system, but it is largely complete. At the moment, there is nothing else. Yes, it is largely complete.

Mr TEAGUE: The budget allocation for 2024-25 was that it cost a bit more than double that for 2024-25. Can the minister explain the reason for that cost overrun?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: Yes, there was about $800,000 of operating budget associated with the project that was reclassified into the investing budget during 2024-25. The total cost of the budget, capital and operating, remains unchanged at $9 million.

Mr TEAGUE: For the benefit of the committee and perhaps those who might be taking advantage of those digital systems for consumers and for businesses, how are those services likely to impact on consumers and businesses requiring CBS services?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: With that particular project with bonds I think you can see—I will give you the reference—particular improvements in the time it takes to refund bonds. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1. With average working days to process bond refunds in 2023-24 we had 14 days and it is now down to 6.1 days, at the top of page 47.

Mr TEAGUE: That is the one with the target of five?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: It has certainly dropped from the actual and we are still aiming for a target of five as that system is bedded down, but there are certainly improvements for, in that case, renters and landlords.

Mr TEAGUE: So that is one key area. Is there anywhere else that that new system is going to be showing results?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: There was digitisation through Births, Deaths and Marriages as well, and the Our History Now project. This is what the member might know as one of the CBS projects. This is the work that was done for that. We had Our History Now as a project. We are essentially digitising, I think, about three million records. Of these records, about 825 have been identified as critical records, so those dealing with potentially living persons or critical records in assisting the prevention of identity theft. They have been digitised.

There is a digitisation process through Births, Deaths and Marriages in terms of digital SmartForms. Applications to correct the register have now gone digital as of April 2025, so the public can now apply online and upload all the evidence they need to support that application. That is making things easier for people dealing with Births, Deaths and Marriages.

BDM continues to develop their use of digital SmartForms. They can now be used by doctors to certify causes of death and that uptake of the digital process will reduce time taken to cremate bodily remains or register deaths, reduce transcription and typographical errors in the registry, improve efficiency of the whole end-to-end process, and offer new opportunities to share cause of death data in real time. We are hoping that form will be ready for testing and consultation in the later months of 2025. Certainly, those BDM improvements, the bonds improvements and work, will be done on the other systems and prioritising improvements that we can make in some of the other very aged systems within CBS.

Mr TEAGUE: I just have some Activity indicators questions from the bottom third of page 47. The number of liquor, gaming, casino and wagering inspections was just over the projection: 2,599. Can the minister indicate some breakdown or particularisation of those inspections? Is there a number the minister can indicate to the committee about causes for concern, breaches of licence and fines applied for breaches?

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: In terms of inspections, I can give you some information about casino versus wagering versus gambling inspections. For casino inspections in 2023-24, there were 366 and up until the end of May this year we are at 335. Wagering inspections were 470 for 2023-24. At the end of May, we were at 357. Gambling inspections for 2023-24 were 571 and we have seen quite a substantial increase up until 31 May this year of 787.

Their operations and inspections at venues are targeting gambling harm risk factors. CBS through 2024-25 has continued to monitor compliance through online work and data analysis and routine and targeted field-based inspections and audits, ensuring that staff in those venues have their training up to date as well. That is particularly important to enable them to identify and respond to gambling harm risks. I think that is the information I am able to provide to you at this point.

Mr TEAGUE: I have one more and it might be on notice. It is an Activity indicators question again and I refer to page 47 at the bottom over to 48 at the top.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: I just have one correction that has come from the chief executive. There may be, but we are not sure yet, additional rent that is being worked through for the fit-out, the 560,000 you asked earlier. They are looking at different options around how staff will be accommodated. The commissioner said there might not be additional rent, but we are still working through that and it will be in Chesser House.

Mr TEAGUE: Just then to those Activity indicators again, at the bottom of page 47 over to top of 48, Liquor licence applications. The minister might want to take this on notice. There are 6,312 liquor licence applications and 6,474 short-term liquor licence applications. Can the minister provide a breakdown of each of these categories listed in the table and can the minister provide an average time taken for those applications to be processed and completed?

The CHAIR: It is okay, you do not have to answer it now.

The Hon. A. MICHAELS: We might take it on notice, given the time.

The CHAIR: That is a very good idea. I advise that the allotted time having expired, I declare the examination of Consumer and Business Services complete. The examination of the proposed payments and Administered Items for the Attorney-General's Department are adjourned until tomorrow.

Sitting suspended from 15:46 to 16:00.


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