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Legislative Council - Fifty-Fourth Parliament, Second Session (54-2)
2021-10-27 Daily Xml
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Bills

Fire and Emergency Services (Bushfires) Amendment Bill

Second Reading

Adjourned debate on second reading.

(Continued from 13 October 2021.)

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY (21:12): First of all, I would like to thank the Hon. Tammy Franks, the Hon. Emily Bourke and the Hon. Stephen Wade for their contributions. I commend the bill to the chamber.

Bill read a second time.

Committee Stage

In committee.

Clause 1.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: I have a question in relation to a contribution that was made by the Minister for Health and Wellbeing. I am hoping that the minister may be able to shed a bit of light on some of the comments he made on this bill, as they relate to concerns that have been raised around surveillance technology. I note that during his contribution he said:

…SAPOL undertakes a range of activities to prevent deliberately lit bushfires through Operation Nomad. This includes the use of surveillance technology. The publication of these activities and technologies used may compromise the effectiveness of Operation Nomad.

He further went on to say that he was aware that the CFS held concerns in respect of that particular element of the bill also. I was just wondering if the minister is actually able to expand on those concerns so we have a better appreciation of them as they relate to the surveillance technology?

The Hon. S.G. WADE: I should clarify there were actually two separate concerns. South Australia Police had concerns about the breadth of this bill and that it could impede their activities in relation to Operation Nomad. I have not been briefed on the details of that technology and the point that the police are making is that this bill would require them to give account of the technologies which could actually undermine the operational activity. I would be fascinated to know what discussions the honourable mover of the bill had with police and what his response is to the concerns for police.

We know that a significant threat to South Australia in terms of bushfires is actually arsonists. Sure, climate change is a significant issue but the state of the Hills is one issue. If you like, it is the wick. If this house, by undermining the operations of the police, will actually encourage those who want to light the wick I believe we are being reckless. Police have advised us that they have particular concerns should there be a requirement for, and a reporting on, technologies used to prevent bushfires.

Separately—and my understanding is they are quite separate concerns independently raised by two vital essential services—the concerns in relation to the CFS, I am advised, are in relation to the elements of the bill that would provide the State Bushfire Coordination Committee with the power to essentially direct operational agencies. As an operational agency, the CFS is concerned about this bill and, again, I would be fascinated to know what advice the honourable member moving this bill had from the CFS and why he was willing to discount them.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: We had quite extensive discussions with SAPOL and the CFS. We agreed that there was no need to describe in detail what these situations were. They would only be reporting in general terms what they did on the plan.

The Hon. S.G. WADE: As the minister representing the minister who is responsible for this area, I have been given advice that both agencies have ongoing concerns. The honourable member may want to reframe the advice he has received but the firm advice from the agencies through the relevant minister is that this bill is unacceptable. If crossbenchers and members of the opposition want to put at risk our state's capacity to respond to an emergency, the record will show that.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: Obviously, that is an area that we would like to explore a little further. I am not sure how we do that. Is there—

The Hon. S.G. Wade: I have got firm advice.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: No, I appreciate that the minister has firm advice. I am not sure if the mover could expand on the discussions that he had and how these provisions could be used to provide the sort of advice that the mover indicated is intended, as opposed to the broader advice that the minister says the agencies have concern over.

Is the concern that the net has been cast too wide in terms of what is being prescribed in the bill or is it in fact the case that you could actually limit the information that is actually provided? Would that alleviate the concerns that the minister has ventilated?

The Hon. S.G. WADE: Let me be clearer. These are concerns of SA Police and the CFS. I am advised that SA Police believe that the publication of these activities and these technologies in relation to Operation Nomad may compromise the effectiveness of Operation Nomad.

It is a bit like saying, for organised crime, 'We'll publish our protocols, we'll publish how we're going to do things,' and expect that that will somehow not jeopardise the operations against organised crime. It is self-evidently common sense that police should not be required to disclose their technologies to people who may seek to get around them to pursue their arsonist behaviours.

With all due respect, we should respect the advice of SA Police that they believe that publishing their strategies, their technologies, would undermine their capacity to protect the people of South Australia. I would be fascinated to know what the honourable member's discussions were with the police, why they tell the government one thing and the honourable member believes they are relaxed.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: My amendment No. 7 covers that. That amendment refers to measures to reduce the incidence of deliberately lit bushfires. It does not require SAPOL to divulge operational details that would compromise their effectiveness: quite the opposite. SAPOL would be able to outline measures that would assist in deterring bushfire arson behaviour; for example, reporting of Operation Nomad does not mean that the operational detail is provided, compromising operational effectiveness.

Clause passed.

Clauses 2 to 4 passed.

Clause 5.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 1 [Darley–2]—

Page 3, line 26 to 29 [clause 5, inserted paragraph (ca)]—Delete ', placement and use of bushfire monitoring and detection cameras, and the use of images and data captured by bushfire monitoring and detection cameras under this Act'

This bill with amendments is focused on enhanced planning and reporting to the minister and parliament on bushfire measures relating to prescribed burns and emerging technologies. It is not prescriptive. The bill focuses on transparency in the reporting of:

1. The annual prescribed burns program against principles, criteria and methodologies set out in the statewide plan for conducting prescribed burns; and

2. Emerging technologies relating to bushfire monitoring, detection and warning.

This amendment deletes reference to bushfire monitoring and detection cameras. Advice from SAPOL was that they have a range of ways of capturing numberplates, including clandestine cameras and aircraft. SAPOL is also satisfied with their present powers relating to any use of monitoring technologies, and therefore do not consider codification of further powers is needed in the bill. Instead, there will be reporting on emerging technologies picked up elsewhere in the bill.

Amendment carried; clause as amended passed.

Clause 6.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 2 [Darley–2]—

Page 3, after line 34 [clause 6, inserted subsection (1a)]—Insert:

(aa) the annual programme for implementation of the State-wide Plan for Prescribed Burns, set out in the report by the State Bushfire Coordination Committee under section 71G, including—

(a) information on the human resources and physical assets required to implement the plan in the present and future years, and

(b) the ways in which such resources and assets will be deployed.

This amendment inserts the information requiring an annual program for implementation of the statewide plan for conducting prescribed burns in proposed section 71G to be referred to in 71E—Annual reports of the State Bushfire Coordination Committee.

Amendment carried.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 3 [Darley–2]—

Page 3, line 38 [clause 6, inserted subsection (1a)(a)]—After 'year' insert:

(including information relating to their contribution to non-burn fuel reduction and management if relevant)

This amendment ensures any information relating to non-burn fuel reduction and management is included, where relevant, when considering the statewide plan for conducting prescribed burns.

Amendment carried.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 4 [Darley–2]—

Page 4, lines 5 to 16 [clause 6, inserted subsection (1a)(c), (d) and (e)]—Delete inserted paragraphs (c), (d) and (e) and substitute:

(c) the developments (if any) in emerging technologies to prevent, detect, warn and respond to bushfires during the preceding financial year; and

(d) the extent to which such emerging technologies have been examined and trialled in the State during the preceding financial year, or are proposed to be examined and trialled in the current financial year; and

(e) a summary of the measures referred to in section 73A(3)(ca) and (cb) identified by the bushfire management committees in their Bushfire Management Area Plans; and

(ea) a summary of the report prepared by the State Bushfire Coordination Committee under section 71G; and

The sections referring to bushfire monitoring and detection cameras are removed in amendment No. 8. Instead, they are inserted, reporting on any emerging technologies or trialling and summary of the report of the State Bushfire Coordination Committee, under proposed section 71G.

Amendment carried; clause as amended passed.

New clause 6A.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 5 [Darley–2]—

Page 4, after line 17—Insert:

6A—Insertion of sections 71G and 71H

After section 71F insert:

71G—State Bushfire Coordination Committee to prepare report on certain bushfire measures

(1) The State Bushfire Coordination Committee must, on or before 31 July in each year, provide to the Minister a report setting out, in respect of each bushfire management area—

(a) the measures (including planning measures) undertaken in the bushfire management area during the preceding financial year for the purposes of reducing the incidence and severity of bushfires in the bushfire management area; and

(b) details of each prescribed burn conducted during the preceding financial year in the bushfire management area; and

(c) the extent to which the State-wide Plan for Conducting Prescribed Burns was implemented in respect of the bushfire management area during the preceding financial year; and

(d) any impediments that prevented the successful completion of prescribed burns in the bushfire management area in accordance with the State-wide Plan for Conducting Prescribed Burns during the preceding financial year; and

(e) any measures (including planning measures) proposed for the current and future financial years for the purposes of reducing the incidence and severity of bushfires in the bushfire management area; and

(f) any other information required by the regulations.

(2) Without limiting the matters that may be included in the report, the report must—

(a) include a description of measures taken, or proposed to be taken, to prevent, detect, warn and respond to bushfires in the relevant bushfire management area; and

(b) comply with any other requirements prescribed by or under this Act or the regulations.

(3) The Minister must, within 12 sitting days after receiving a report under this section, have copies of the report laid before both Houses of Parliament.

71H—State Bushfire Coordination Committee may require report etc from State authorities

(1) The State Bushfire Coordination Committee may, by notice in writing and for the purposes of preparing a report under section 71G, require a State authority to provide to the State Bushfire Coordination Committee such information or documents as may be specified in the notice.

(2) The State authority must provide the information or documents in the manner and form, and within the period, specified in the notice.

(3) If a State authority has not complied with a requirement under this section, the State Bushfire Coordination Committee may require the State authority to provide to the State Bushfire Coordination Committee within a specified period a report setting out the reasons for non-compliance.

(4) The State Bushfire Coordination Committee may, on receiving a report under subsection (3), prepare a report to the Minister setting out—

(a) a copy of the State authority's report under subsection (3); and

(b) the views of the State Bushfire Coordination Committee in respect of the State authority's non-compliance.

(5) The Minister must, on receiving a report under subsection (4), prepare a report to Parliament setting out—

(a) the Minister's response to the State Bushfire Coordination Committee's report; and

(b) any other information required by the regulations.

(6) The Minister must, within 6 sitting days after completing a report under subsection (5), cause a copy of both the report and the State Bushfire Coordination Committee's report under subsection (4) to be laid before both Houses of Parliament.

(7) In this section—

State authority means—

(a) an administrative unit of the Public Service; or

(b) an agency or instrumentality of the Crown; or

(c) a person who holds an office established by an Act; or

(d) South Australia Police; or

(e) a local council constituted under the Local Government Act 1999; or

(f) a public sector agency; or

(g) any other person or body declared by the regulations to be a State authority,

but does not include a person or body declared by the regulations to be excluded from the ambit of this definition;

Proposed sections 71G and 71H set out the information in the report of the bushfire management and coordination committee on the statewide plan for conducting prescribed burns and measures reducing the incidence and severity of bushfires and mechanisms for its compilation and delivery.

New clause inserted.

Clause 7.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 6 [Darley–2]—

Page 4, lines 20 to 33 [clause 7, inserted subsection (4a)]—Delete inserted subsection (4a) and substitute:

(4a) Without limiting subsection (2), the plan must contain a plan (the State-wide Plan for Conducting Prescribed Burns) that sets out the principles, criteria and methodology—

(a) relating to—

(i) the conduct of prescribed burns on an annual basis to meet community safety needs and environmental objectives; and

(ii) a burns programme that ensures an ecologically sustainable cycle of patchwork burns to keep fuel loads at acceptable levels; and

(iii) any non-burn fuel reduction and management strategies; and

(b) against which an annual programme for implementation of the State-wide Plan for Conducting Prescribed Burns will be implemented and contained in the reports by the State Bushfire Coordination Committee under section 71E and 71G.

This amendment makes clear that, whilst the State Bushfire Management Plan refers to the annual program of bushfire burns, it removes any confusion and makes clear that the details of the annual program are clearly not part of the four to five-year State Bushfire Management Plan. This is despite the contrary assertion by government; rather, the annual program reports against the principles, criteria and methodology in the statewide plan on prescribed burns, which is in the State Bushfire Management Plan.

Amendment carried; clause as amended passed.

Clause 8.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 7 [Darley–2]—

Page 4, after line 34—Insert:

(1) Section 73A(3)—after paragraph (c) insert:

(ca) identify any measures taken, or proposed to be taken, by SACFS to prevent, detect, warn of and respond to bushfires within its area; and

(cb) identify measures that should be taken by persons, agencies and authorities to reduce the incidence of deliberately lit bushfires within its area; and

This amendment refers to measures to reduce the incidence of deliberately lit bushfires. It does not require SAPOL to divulge operational details that would compromise their effectiveness. It is quite the opposite: it would be able to outline measures that would assist in deterring bushfire arson behaviour. For example: reporting of Operation Nomad does not mean the operational detail is provided, compromising operational effectiveness.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: I do not think that the mover is able to answer this; I think it is a question that I might have to ask the minister. The advice that the minister referred to previously, does that take into account the amendments that the mover has proposed in terms of addressing the concerns that have been outlined by the government?

The Hon. S.G. WADE: I do not have specific advice on the amendment. First of all, (ca) relates to the CFS, not the police. The second element does relate to the issue of arson. The advice I have is the police have concerns. I personally believe the house should give strong regard to the advice of the police.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: I appreciate what the minister is saying and I appreciate that the mover is saying that discussions have taken place which seek to address the concerns that have been raised. I guess the difficulty is that we do not know, in fact, if those concerns have been raised and whether that advice was received pre- or post-amendments, which makes it a little bit difficult. We certainly take on board the concerns that have been raised by the minister in relation to those issues and would not want to be doing anything to undermine the work of Operation Nomad or SAPOL or anybody else.

If this amendment were to be inserted, one way forward, as we deal with all these matters, is to deal with it between the houses in terms of whether it actually continues to pose the risk that the minister has highlighted. I do not think that is a risk that can be dismissed by any of us. I think that is something we need to take into account. I think we also need to afford the mover the opportunity to try to address that risk, and I think he has tried to do that via these amendments. We just do not know whether they actually have that effect.

I place that on the record so that it is clear that we do have concerns around the issues that the minister has raised. We would like some clarity around this issue. I think that is something that will be addressed between the houses, if this amendment is successful.

The Hon. S.G. WADE: I think the Hon. Connie Bonaros makes a good point. The government would be happy to seek further advice between the houses.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: Thank you, and perhaps if I can just elaborate. I think there are a number of other amendments that the mover is proposing which seek to address some of those issues or remedy the problems that the government has outlined, so the comments would apply equally to those in total.

The Hon. E.S. BOURKE: I also put on the record that the opposition feels that is a good way forward, that we have these discussions through the houses and get it to the other chamber.

Amendment carried; clause as amended passed.

Clause 9.

The CHAIR: Amendment No. 8 [Darley-2] is proposing to delete clause 9. The Hon. Mr Darley, you do not have to move that because it is a deletion not an amendment, but you can speak to it.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: This amendment removes sections on bushfire monitoring and detection cameras. As previously stated, instead there will be reporting on emerging technologies and measures to prevent, detect, warn and respond to bushfires, including measures to reduce the incidence of deliberately lit bushfires.

Clause negatived.

Clause 10.

The CHAIR: We now move to amendment No. 9 [Darley-2], clause 10. Here again this is an amendment related to the deletion of clause 10.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: This amendment removes the requirement that the South Australian CFS includes in its report under section 101 information on the statewide plan for conducting prescribed burns.

Clause negatived.

Schedule 1.

The CHAIR: We now move to the schedule, and here amendment No. 10 [Darley—2] is referring to the proposed deletion of schedule 1.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: This amendment removes amendments to the Emergency Management Act 2004. The amendments necessary for this bill can now be entirely contained within the Fire and Emergency Services Act 2005.

Schedule negatived.

Long title.

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY: I move:

Amendment No 11 [Darley–2]—Long title—Delete:

and to make related amendments to the Emergency Management Act 2004

This amendment deletes any reference to the Emergency Management Act, as it is no longer needed.

Amendment carried; long title as amended passed.

Bill reported with amendment.

Third Reading

The Hon. J.A. DARLEY (21:37): I move:

That this bill be now read a third time.

Bill read a third time and passed.

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