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Legislative Council - Fifty-Fourth Parliament, Second Session (54-2)
2021-02-16 Daily Xml
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Infrastructure and Transport Department Investigations

The Hon. T.A. FRANKS (14:38): I seek leave to make a brief explanation before addressing a question to the Treasurer in his role as minister for the public sector on the topic of departmental investigations.

Leave granted.

The Hon. T.A. FRANKS: Reports that the Department for Infrastructure and Transport has been spending, I believe, some thousands of dollars of public money on private investigators to find staff members who have purportedly leaked agency information to the media have come to light in recent days. My questions to the minister are:

1. Is this standard practice across the public sector, to hire private investigators to conduct investigations of staff within departments? Does the Commissioner for Public Sector Employment receive any oversight or updates on this?

2. If it is standard practice, in which departments has this occurred, on how many occasions has this happened under this Marshall Liberal government and what, broadly, have been the topics of these private investigators' inquiries?

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS (Treasurer) (14:39): Certainly, on my understanding I don't believe it to be standard practice but I don't think it is, I suspect, unprecedented. I must admit I was stunned to hear some of the statements being made by the Labor opposition in relation to this issue.

Some of us have long memories in this place, and I well recall the leaking or loss of a USB stick in relation to the new Royal Adelaide Hospital, and a leak inquiry or investigation was instigated by the former Labor government. When the member for West Torrens was asked as to whether or not the former government had ever undertaken this, he denied any knowledge that such practices had occurred. Of course, he is a very prominent member, so perhaps he is suffering memory loss. I'm not sure. But I was advised that if one goes to the Hansard of—

The Hon. I.K. Hunter interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter, order!

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —25 June 2009 and refers to statements made by the former health minister, the Hon. John Hill at the time, when he was asked about the leak inquiry and activities being undertaken by the former Labor government, he was asked how much did it cost.

Members interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order!

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: And he said, and I quote, 'There is no budget line. It would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.'

The Hon. I.K. Hunter: Answer the question you were asked.

The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter, order!

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: 'I am happy to get an estimate for the member if that is possible', by the former Labor government.

Members interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order!

The Hon. D.W. Ridgway: Chuck him out!

The PRESIDENT: Order! The Hon. Mr Ridgway is out of order.

Members interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order! I'm on my feet. The Treasurer will be heard in silence.

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: So the hypocrisy of the—

The Hon. I.K. Hunter: Answer the question.

The PRESIDENT: Order, the Hon. Mr Hunter!

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —Labor members knows no bounds. In response to the Hon. Ms Franks' question—

The Hon. I.K. Hunter interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order!

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —when she asked is it standard practice: no, I don't believe it would be characterised as standard practice, but the point of—

Members interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order! There are no conversations on the opposition benches or across the chamber.

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —me recounting the facts was to demonstrate that under governments, Labor and I assume under the Liberal government, it is not unprecedented if a judgement is made that something so serious which might constitute a breach of either the Code of Ethics or the Public Sector Act, then governments, of all persuasions—

The Hon. I.K. Hunter interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order!

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —including the former Labor government, who might like to portray themselves as holier than thou on this particular issue, have convenient memory losses when it relates to—

The Hon. I.K. Hunter interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter will cease.

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —what might be euphemistically called 'leak inquiries', for those who have seen Yes Minister.

I also recall other examples under the former administration where leak inquiries, which employed consultants or investigators, were engaged. So my characterisation of the circumstances would be not that it's standard practice but that it's not unprecedented and that I'm sure that, under governments Labor and Liberal, when it is deemed serious enough it has occurred.

In relation to the question as to whether there is an oversight or permissions required from the Commissioner for Public Sector Employment, no, I don't believe so. These are judgement calls that chief executives of departments, I would imagine, have the authority to undertake. I will check that, but unless my advice is contrary to what I say, I won't bring back a further reply because my understanding would be certainly that, under the former government, or indeed under this government, you are not required to get permission from the Commissioner for Public Sector Employment, or indeed even to report to the commissioner, as to how you might investigate something which might, quite seriously, have been leaked by someone working within the public sector in a position of trust or confidence.

In terms of the oversight and the costs of these things, as I said I am not aware, which doesn't mean that a chief executive hasn't conducted their own leak inquiry on other issues, but in trying to think about the last three years I can't immediately recall other circumstances. There might have been other circumstances. As I said, I can remember a good number, one of which I was able to quickly turn up in Hansard in 2009 in relation to the former Labor government. There were a number of other examples of which I am aware and, with a little bit of time, would be able to dig up the detail in relation to the activities of former Labor government ministers in this respect.

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