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House of Assembly - Fifty-Second Parliament, Second Session (52-2)
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MOTOR VEHICLES (DRIVER LICENSING) AMENDMENT BILL

Second Reading

Adjourned debate on second reading (resumed on motion).

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN (Napier—Minister for Finance, Minister for Police, Minister for Correctional Services, Minister for Emergency Services, Minister for Road Safety) (15:57): I will continue with the comments I made prior to lunch. I do not wish to discuss the bill at length—most of the substantive matters were well and truly canvassed in the second reading speech—but I would just like to again acknowledge the role of Judge Peter McCusker, who has been advocating for this measure for some time. As I said, he and former premier John Bannon came to see me several months ago and explained the proposition as they saw it, and the benefits to residents of the APY lands.

I made mention of the fact that the proposition resonated with me, in large part because I had served on the select committee on the juvenile justice system, of which the member for Bragg was also a member. What I took away from that particular inquiry was a recognition that Indigenous youth are significantly overrepresented in the juvenile justice system as well as in the adult prison system.

There are a number of reasons for that overrepresentation, and they come down in large part to poor numeracy and literacy skills, which in turn prevent Indigenous youth from entering the employment mainstream, but also the fact that they get caught up inadvertently in the justice system for transgressions such as driving unlicensed and unregistered. They are apprehended and, in a large number of instances, they fail to pay the fine and the offence compounds itself. From I would not say a minor infraction but a traffic infringement, they find themselves propelled into the juvenile and adult justice system.

The second factor that made the proposition resonate with me was my role as a parliamentary secretary serving as chair of a ministerial task force on Indigenous employment. This was at the time when 'Twiggy' Forrest was launching his Indigenous employment program, and we had representatives from the mining sector come along and address us. The point they made was that the thing that was largely preventing the employment of Indigenous youth in remote areas of Australia was the fact that they did not hold driver's licences, and it was a prerequisite for employment on mining sites that they had to be able to drive a four-wheel drive vehicle.

So, we have two factors at play: firstly, the entry point, if you like, for Indigenous youth into the justice system, in large part, I believe, through a failure to either register their motor vehicle or to gain a driver's licence in the first instance—that is particularly true in the APY lands. Secondly, the fact that they do not have a driver's licence, on the APY lands, precludes them from employment in remote areas of the nation on mining projects.

The third factor was the visit that I made to the APY lands some six months ago with the former deputy prime minister Jenny Macklin. It was a revelation, in that it made me aware of the remoteness of those communities, both from large population centres like Alice Springs and in the distance between each of the townships and the fact that they are linked by extremely poor roads.

One of the issues that the deputy prime minister and I talked about was the provision of administrative services by the South Australian government and the commonwealth government on the lands, and we talked about the possibility of co-linking Service SA functions with those delivered by the commonwealth at each of the locations through the lands. I came away from the visit with not only a very clear understanding of the remoteness of the townships from major population centres like Alice Springs but also the fact that they are separated by reasonable distances and poor roads and the fact that it is very difficult to actually get a service like Service SA operating on the lands on an ongoing basis.

Even with discussions with the commonwealth government to basically employ one individual to perform state government functions such as the registration of motor vehicles, renewal of driver's licences and all of the other functions that are performed by Service SA, and then the commonwealth functions in relation to pensions and the like, we are finding it extremely difficult to get a workable proposition in place on the lands. So, even Indigenous people on the lands with the best intentions would find it well-nigh impossible to get a driver's licence, because the commonwealth and the state government really find it a challenge to get a service in place, to staff that service and to ensure that it operates year-round without any interference and is provided in each of the regional centres, given the distances from each other.

So those were the three factors that drove me to the conclusion, if you like, that I wanted to get behind this proposition and have it dealt with in the life of this parliament. There was a reason that the Hon. Ian Hunter and I joined forces. The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Reconciliation introduced it in the Legislative Council to fast track it through the parliament.

Members would be aware that we do have an issue on the APY lands in that 17 per cent of eligible Indigenous people on the lands are licensed, as opposed to 90 per cent in the rest of the state. That in itself is a recognition of the fact that we have been unsuccessful for a whole range of reasons in ensuring that Indigenous men and women and young people on the lands drive with a driver's licence and also that their motor vehicles are registered. That in turn makes them susceptible to infringements in relation to driving unlicensed and unregistered.

We are aware that in the Northern Territory they have arrived at a solution which they call DriveSafe NT Remote. In the last 18 months, they have had 894 Indigenous people in remote communities obtain their learners permits and 217 are on their Ps. So we know that there is at least one model in operation in Australia that gives the results that we seek in the lands.

Where we will probably differ—and this probably answers the question asked by the member for Bragg in relation to the 12 individuals who have been nominated—is that, in relation to those individuals, we have yet to complete the identity checks to see whether they are suitable for the course, but, more importantly, we actually have to develop the program. Even though we will look with great interest at the program being run in the Northern Territory—the DriveSafe NT Remote program—we will probably do it a lot differently in that we will actually have a very, very intense program.

What we have to do is actually develop that program, taking on board the views of the community on the lands. It will be a program that will be developed in close consultation with residents living on the lands. One thing that it probably will include is a new Ozroads program that has been developed for Indigenous learners which recognises the cultural characteristics of those individuals residing in remote Indigenous communities and does not rely on written work. It recognises that English is a second language for most of these individuals and tailors the program around that fact, and it also recognises that their numeracy and particularly their literacy skills are not at a level that would stand up to running the type of test that we run elsewhere in the state.

We have yet to develop that program. It will be developed in close consultation with people on the lands. It will include the Ozroads program because the commonwealth has committed reasonable resources to working up this particular proposition. Once we have arrived at the structure of the program, we will then go out to tender with the intention of securing the services of a reputable and significant South Australian (potentially) driving school that will deliver the program on the lands, supply the vehicles, supply the instructors and deliver what will be a shorter course but a very intense course, probably recognising in large part that a large number of the individuals who will actually be taking the lessons have been driving for a number of years on the lands.

Just in relation to the comments that have been made by the opposition in relation to the graduated licensing scheme changes that we have made, the fact of the matter is that what we are proposing will not only give better employment outcomes for people on the lands, it will deal with this issue of the failure to obtain a drivers licence or to register their motor vehicles as an entree into the criminal justice system. It will not only address those two particular issues, it will also deal with the issue of road safety, because Indigenous people are over-represented in the casualty and serious injury statistics.

Having a regime like this on the land where rather than having the 17 per cent of eligible Aboriginal people with a licence, as opposed to 90 per cent elsewhere in the state, we will bring them into the system and oblige them to comply with all of the requirements that currently apply and will apply later in the year in relation to P1 and, to a lesser extent, P2 licence requirements.

So, that, in essence, is what we are seeking to achieve with the program. I think it is a great outcome for the APY lands communities. I have been extremely welcoming of the fact that the opposition is highly supportive. It has a thorough understanding of the issues confronting people on the lands. We have not had to run with the argument of there being one set of rules for Indigenous people on the lands and another set of rules for individuals residing elsewhere in the state. There has been a recognition that this is a unique set of circumstances that has to be addressed with a unique set of solutions.

Bill read a second time.

Committee Stage

In committee.

Clauses 1 and 2 passed.

Clause 3.

Ms CHAPMAN: In respect of the proposed regime for exemption, could you explain: of the 12 people who have been identified as being, apparently, fit for consideration, has there been any criteria set out as to whom that should apply to, other than as proposed here, which requires that the person be an Aboriginal person who ordinarily resides in the remote area as defined and apparently for the purpose of enabling that person to obtain a licence? They seem to be the requisites under subclause (2) as proposed. Is there any other criteria?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: The eligibility criteria is that they be 20 years of age or over, provide proof of residence in the APY lands, have community endorsement to undertake the course, not be subject to a current driver's licence disqualification or suspension that is in place or pending, including a licence issued in another jurisdiction that is subject to such conditions, and not be subject to a mandatory alcohol interlock scheme condition.

Ms CHAPMAN: Where do we find those criteria?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: It will be a ministerial policy that will obviously be under the name of the minister for road safety at the time; so it will be a ministerial policy which will be accessible.

Ms CHAPMAN: I am assuming that the 12 people, that we understand have been identified as being suitable for consideration, are yet to go through this process of meeting the criteria?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: That's correct. We have just commenced the vetting process.

Ms CHAPMAN: Assuming that one or more of the 12 meet the criteria that you have set under this new policy, is it proposed that before you consider granting an exemption the applicants will undertake some form of driving training?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: Yes. After being selected they would be run through this intense course which, as I mentioned, will be developed over coming months. Once the course is developed to the satisfaction of the registrar and the minister of the day, it will then be put out to public tender.

Ms CHAPMAN: Is it intended that the applicants will also, at the conclusion of whatever the program is to be in driver training, undertake some form of assessment on their competency to drive?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: Member for Bragg, yes, that is an integral part. Where we probably will differ considerably from the program run in the Northern Territory is on the structure of the course. I think ours is going to be a lot more—how can I put this without offending our cousins in the Northern Territory?—structured and have a more stringent assessment process attached to it.

Ms CHAPMAN: I thank the minister for that because it is very encouraging to hear that indication. Perhaps in the lifetime of his ministry that high standard will be maintained. I think the parliament can see, minister, that without any of the criteria being in either a proposed regulation or in the bill, and without any indication of what conditions would apply in the standards that you have set in the bill, it could be that the circumstances that I put to the parliament in the second reading would prevail; that is, the minister might like to just push a few through the gate, sign off the form, no requisite competency training or testing. That would be of great concern, especially given the environment of, I think, across-the-board public safety and road safety commitment that each of our major parties has given.

Just on the Northern Territory program, that is a program about which I have had occasion to speak to the minister for transport in the Northern Territory. It is noted, and I think I mentioned this in the previous debate on the second reading, that the opportunities for fast-tracking driver qualification processes there are offered in areas where there is opportunity for employment—obviously, particularly on the coast, where there is transport opportunity—and that is quite distinct from the programs that you proposed. Was there some reason why you moved from what I think is more consistent with the Northern Territory model and what was previously flagged in the considerations, namely, to have this opportunity in the northern suburbs and at Port Augusta transferred to the remote lands?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: The reason that we have structured it in the way that we have and confined it specifically to the APY lands is that there is a set of conditions that prevail in the APY lands that do not prevail in Port Augusta or in the northern suburbs. A resident of Port Augusta or the northern suburbs is in a position to avail himself or herself of a qualified supervising driver for the sake of undertaking the learner phase of their licence, whereas in the lands, as I said, I think the percentage of people who actually hold a driver's licence is extremely low; it is 17 per cent.

The situation on the lands is that, with probably the best intent in the world, to comply with all of the conditions that apply elsewhere in the state in relation to doing the requisite number of supervised hours on an L-plate and then progressing to the P is very difficult to do on the lands, because only 17 per cent of those who are eligible to hold a driver's licence hold one. I do not think that that situation would prevail in Port Augusta or the northern suburbs of Adelaide.

We have other issues on the APY lands, and I know that the member for Bragg has made numerous comments in relation to the amendments that we were successful in getting through the parliament in relation to provisional driving licences. The member for Bragg made a number of references to bus services. One of the issues on the lands is that, if you want to go to Alice Springs for medical treatment, you do not have any option; you actually have to drive.

That is why there is a large number of individuals on the lands who drive unregistered motor vehicles and drive unlicensed, because it very difficult for them to get a driver's licence. It is difficult for them to register a motor vehicle, because as I said we find it very difficult to get a permanent Service SA system operating on the lands, whereas in Port Augusta or in the northern suburbs of Adelaide those issues, such as having to travel considerable distances to seek advanced medical attention in a place like Alice Springs, do not apply.

We also were much of the view that it would be an unpalatable proposition for the parliament if I were to bring into this parliament an exemption process that applied to Indigenous youth in areas like Port Lincoln, Port Augusta and the northern suburbs. That is why we have run with this model. I think it is the most appropriate.

Ms CHAPMAN: Once you have selected a suitable driver school party to undertake the job, is it proposed that they will have a facility or provide this service at one of the towns? If so, is it going to be in the trade centre, or where is it going to operate from? I think I heard you say earlier that they are going to be taking vehicles with them. Are they only going to be teaching them in cars, or are they going to be learning in trucks as well?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: The thinking at the moment is that we would base the training out of the trade training centre, but that decision will be further refined, if you like, by discussion with the community. At the moment the community thinks it is a good idea. The attraction for the community is that the 12 individuals can come from anywhere on the lands and be billeted while they are undertaking the training.

We will commence with light motor vehicles, but with a view to move to heavier vehicles because it has been put to me that one of the employment opportunities on the land is driving the trucks that go to and from Alice Springs with foodstuffs and also the school buses and the like, so in due course we are going to have to elevate the training so that they can get medium to heavy vehicle licences so they can actually avail themselves of the employment opportunities.

Ms CHAPMAN: Just on the residency requirement, I think you mentioned that under the policy regime there is going to be a proof of residence. Is there some qualifying period that this over 20-year-old applicant has to be living either in APY lands, or the MT lands which I think is also included in this bill? Is there some qualifying period or how does that work?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: That would have to be determined because, member for Bragg, you are probably aware of the transitory nature of Indigenous people living in remote communities where, come summer, a large number migrate, for lack of a better word, to Port Augusta to be by the coast during the heat of summer and then return to the lands.

I imagine that we would be informed by school records and information held by the various agencies as to where the bulk of time was spent. My understanding is that the period that is spent in Port Augusta is only a couple of months a year and that the bulk of the time is spent in the lands, but you have correctly identified an issue that we are going to have to work through.

Ms CHAPMAN: The applicants have to be over 20 years under your policy. One assumes that they will have to be registered somewhere on an electoral roll and that, in itself, may be a necessary prerequisite to establish that. Otherwise, I think you would agree, minister, that anyone who is over 20 who wants to get their licence and skip through the whole three, now four-year, process that it is going to be under the graduated licensing scheme could simply go up to the trade training centre and register their Aunt Mary's address on the lands and then get the short system and get it cheaper and quicker.

I would have thought that, given you have identified that it is to be over 20, you are clearly going to be dealing with those who are able to register for voting, and that may be one way of doing it. It also provides under the bill for an extra area of remoteness which is to be lands prescribed by regulation. Are there are any other proposed areas that are intended at present to be included?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: Not at this stage, member for Bragg. We want to get this up and working and iron out any imperfections such as those relating to proof of identify. Once we have bedded that down we will consider other sites. I would like to make the point that in relation to Ps it may well be that we do not grant wholesale exemptions to Ps. It is about getting people through the L phase where they are obliged to do a large number of supervised hours and do the theory test.

My inclination at least would be to see them serve out the full term on P1 and P2 because, among other things, the prohibition on use of alcohol while driving applies over both the P1 and the P2. I would be loath to see that truncated, because I do not think that is an imposition for anybody, particularly individuals on the land, to lay off the drink when they are driving, but the emphasis will be very much on the L phase. That is the thinking of the government.

Ms CHAPMAN: Is it proposed that if the applicant does not have any experience in driving, for example, in metropolitan areas—that is, if one of these applicants has clearly been driving, but in the lands, on the desert, between Fregon and Umuwa or out to a campsite, and has not really dealt with the challenges of metropolitan driving, including managing stop lights and giving way to the right, etc—that you will have a licence condition which may limit to the lands or limit it to a certain region? That is, will it be only on the APY lands that driving is allowed or only to or from certain areas, or is it proposed that, when you do grant these licences, it will be for driving anywhere?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: That was discussed as a potential option, but it was felt that it was probably unworkable in that it would be difficult to police and probably work against several of the elements that we are trying to drive with the bill, and one of those is increased access to employment opportunities elsewhere in the nation. The other is the ability to drive, both licensed and in a registered vehicle, to places like Alice Springs to seek medical attention.

Ms CHAPMAN: Is it proposed that there be any restriction on the hours the licence would be available? For example, if they did get a job running camels across to Peterborough and bringing trucks back eventually, or driving to a certain area of the town to help round up the camels, would there be a condition on their licence that they would only have it, say, during the day time? Is that also considered, that they would have their own restriction?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: The intention at this point in time is to focus on the L-phase and to obligate drivers on the lands to comply with all of the requirements in the P-phase, so the night curfew would apply.

Ms CHAPMAN: How much has been allocated in this year's budget for the commencement of the implementation of this program between now and June 2014? I should say that during the briefing it was indicated that it was hoped that the program would be up and running for the commencement of July 2014, but I am assuming, in being advised, that the $120,000 that we understand has been allocated would be used to do the preliminary invitations to tender selections and the like. Could you perhaps clarify what the budget is and what it is expected to do for this financial year?

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN: We have a small Aboriginal licensing unit operating on the lands who are engaged in working out this program, and they will be assisted by the staff of the Registrar of Motor Vehicles. That will be funded with existing resources, and the program will not commence until the next financial year. The funding for the implementation of the program will be included in the next budget.

Clause passed.

Title passed.

Bill reported without amendment.

Third Reading

The Hon. M.F. O'BRIEN (Napier—Minister for Finance, Minister for Police, Minister for Correctional Services, Minister for Emergency Services, Minister for Road Safety) (16:35): I move:

That this bill be now read a third time.

Bill read a third time and passed.

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