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Legislative Council - Fifty-Fifth Parliament, First Session (55-1)
2023-09-14 Daily Xml
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Public Sector (Ministerial Travel Reports) Amendment Bill

Second Reading

Adjourned debate on second reading.

(Continued from 22 February 2023.)

The Hon. F. PANGALLO (17:54): I rise to say that SA-Best will be supporting this. We strongly believe in transparency and accountability, and I think that is what this bill by the Hon. Sarah Game strikes to achieve, and also that reports and spending by government ministers and bureaucrats are reported in a timely manner. I acknowledge that the Hon. Sarah Game has extended the time period for that after I had requested that it go to 45 days rather than 30. I think 45 days will give them ample opportunity to be able to collect the necessary data, receipts and whatever, and be able to make those reports available.

Hopefully, another matter I would like to progress one day, and the Hon. Robert Simms has also attempted to progress, is that we may see ministerial diaries and notations on what meetings ministers have—of course, taking into account if there are some privacy issues. But, generally, we would like to see details of those ministerial diaries also made available.

I note that the Premier is heading to China this afternoon with a large contingent in a trade mission. We wish him all the best with that and we hope that it certainly improves relations between South Australia and China. I imagine it will be quite a hectic and expensive trip as well, so I look forward to seeing the expenses of that trip to China when the Premier returns. With that, we support the legislation and the amendment.

The Hon. H.M. GIROLAMO (17:56): This is a relatively simple but important bill to discuss today and one that goes to the issue of transparency from this government—a novel concept, it seems, from those opposite. As Chair of Budget and Finance, I have had a number of senior executives before the committee and, when asked quite benign questions about their travel or that of their ministers, the responses received range from vague to downright avoidance. This bill seeks to make transparency standardised across the Public Service so that taxpayers' money is appropriately accounted for and South Australians, to whom we all answer, can know what they deserve to know.

We do not want to end up in situations, like the federal government, with Labor ministers not declaring their travel for long periods of time, hoping the general public will not be curious as to how they spend their money as they travel around the world taking their golf clubs with them. I thank the Hon. Ms Game for championing this bill in a drive to bring transparency to this government. I note the amendments that the Hon. Ms Game has also submitted to her bill and we are fully supportive of those amendments that are being put forward here today.

I also thank the Hon. Ms Game for putting this forward and it is great to hear that members of SA-Best are supportive of it. We have worked closely with the honourable member around this legislation that has been born out of need. The burden placed on a minister's office and public sector employees to comply and report is not great, and the time frame is very fair at 45 days. I look forward to this sensible amendment passing this space and being transmitted to the other place.

I think that this amendment has a strong chance of being accepted by those opposite, and also passing the lower house, I hope, if indeed the Premier meant what he said when he was talking about his party, and I quote, 'We seek to uphold the highest standards when it comes to disclosure and transparency.' With those few words on a simple, pragmatic and, sadly, required piece of legislation, I commend the bill to the house.

The Hon. T.A. FRANKS (17:58): I rise on behalf of the Greens to speak in support of this bill. In doing so, I would like to acknowledge not only the mover, the Hon. Sarah Game, but also my Greens colleague the Hon. Robert Simms and his ongoing efforts in fighting for transparency and proactive disclosure in this place.

The function of this bill is clear and straightforward. It standardises the reporting of ministerial travel. It places an obligation on ministers to report the reason and necessity for travel and the cost of travel, including transportation, accommodation, food, beverages and activity expenses. With greater transparency, we can ensure government decisions, spending and services are fair, honest and are meeting the needs of our community.

Our government should always ensure that public funds are spent efficiently and fairly. Trust in government is crucial to a healthy democracy. Sadly, we do not have the level of trust that we should at the moment, and measures like this will go some way towards creating that trust.

We need to have confidence in our government's ability to discharge its responsibilities honestly, fairly and in the public interest. Giving the public access to this information held by government does play an important role in building that confidence. However, too often public money is wasted on projects and trips that have minimal benefit to the taxpayer. This creates waste, poor policy outcomes and indeed could promote a corrupt culture.

A study conducted in 2018 led by Griffith University in collaboration with Transparency International Australia revealed that 56 per cent of respondents had either personally witnessed or suspected public officials making decisions favouring businesses or individuals who had provided political donations or support. More recent findings from the 2022 Edelman Trust Barometer also indicate a significant decline in trust across all Australian institutions, with only 52 per cent of Australians expressing trust in the government's ability to act in the best interests of the public.

The Greens have long advocated for improved political transparency. This is one step. To do that we know that nobody should be above scrutiny in our democracy. Everyone benefits from a culture of honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability in politics. It is what we all deserve. With that, I commend the bill.

The Hon. C. BONAROS (18:00): I rise to support the comments of all honourable members and support this bill. I echo the sentiments expressed by all my colleagues and commend the mover for bringing this bill before the parliament. I do not think anyone sees this as particularly cumbersome or onerous. I am sure that even if it is not disclosed already, the material that is actually being requested is already collected somewhere for accounting purposes and is, to a large extent, already available to those agencies and therefore ought to be disclosed publicly.

It is important to note that the bill is entirely consistent with the guidelines that already apply to ministerial travel and would extend to staff as well. I also appreciate the member's amendments insofar as they are intended, in the first instance, to ensure the commencement of this bill is not delayed unnecessarily. We know that there is a fallback provision which would allow the government to have the whole two years to implement this. I would go so far as to say—and I am sure the mover would probably agree with me—that it is her intention and this parliament's intention to ensure that if it can be done quicker it ought to be done quicker. The quicker we start providing this information for the purposes of transparency and accountability, the better.

I will just say on that point that, importantly, if businesses have to comply in terms of disclosure of information as a result of regulatory burdens at their own cost to government departments and the burdensome levels of regulatory requirements that apply to them and are imposed on them by government, then it is only even more fair that the same applies when we are talking about taxpayer funds. Basically, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

In relation to the second material and in light of the material that will need to be provided, I think it is only reasonable that the time frame be extended from 30 to 45 days to account for the fact that there might be credit card statements and so forth that need to be collated. Overall, we are more than happy to support the bill.

The Hon. S.L. GAME (18:03): I thank all honourable members for their support and their contributions.

Bill read a second time.

Committee Stage

In committee.

Clause 1 passed.

New clause 1A.

The Hon. S.L. GAME: I move:

Amendment No 1 [Game–5]—

Page 2, after line 5—Insert:

1A—Commencement

This Act comes into operation 12 months after the day on which it is assented to by the Governor.

This is a short amendment that sets the starting date of no longer than 12 months after the bill is passed for it to come into action.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: We support the amendment.

The Hon. H.M. GIROLAMO: We support it.

The Hon. R.A. SIMMS: As do the Greens.

New clause inserted.

Clause 2.

The Hon. S.L. GAME: I move:

Amendment No 1 [Game–3]—

Page 2, line 24 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)]—Delete '30' and substitute '45'

This is a change for reporting from 30 days after the trip to 45 days after the trip to ensure there is sufficient time for reporting.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: We support the amendment.

The Hon. H.M. GIROLAMO: Supportive of the amendment.

The Hon. R.A. SIMMS: As am I.

Amendment carried.

The Hon. S.L. GAME: I move:

Amendment No 1 [Game–2]—

Page 2, line 24 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)]—Delete 'undertaking' and substitute:

the conclusion of

The purpose of this amendment is to ensure that it is clear that the days set for the report begin after the trip is undertaken.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: We support the amendment.

The Hon. H.M. GIROLAMO: We support the amendment.

The Hon. R.A. SIMMS: Ditto.

Amendment carried.

The Hon. S.L. GAME: I move:

Amendment No 1 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 14 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)]—

Delete 'member of a public sector agency (not being a public sector agency consisting of a Minister)' and substitute:

public sector employee

Amendment No 2 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 17 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)]—Delete 'member's' and substitute 'public sector employee's'

Amendment No 3 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 19 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)(i)]—Delete 'member' and substitute 'public sector employee'

Amendment No 4 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 21 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)(ii)]—Delete 'member' and substitute 'public sector employee'

Amendment No 5 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 22 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)(iii)]—Delete 'member' and substitute 'public sector employee'

Amendment No 6 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 25 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)(iv)]—Delete 'member's' and substitute 'public sector employee's'

Amendment No 7 [Game–4]—

Page 3, line 33 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(1)(b)(v)]—Delete 'member' and substitute 'public sector employee'

This suite of amendments was done on the advice of the Law Society to better define 'member of a public sector agency' as 'public sector employee'.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: We support the amendment.

The Hon. H.M. GIROLAMO: We support the amendment.

The Hon. R.A. SIMMS: Ditto.

The CHAIR: Are we going to accept that? The Clerk wants me to ask you to leave the chamber, but I won't.

Amendments carried.

The Hon. S.L. GAME: I move the amendments in my name:

Amendment No 2 [Game–2]—

Page 4, after line 16 [clause 2, inserted section 12B]—Insert:

(1a) A Minister preparing a report under this section must cause copies of receipts for all costs relating to travel to which this Part applies to accompany the report.

(1b) A report prepared under this section must be in the prescribed manner and form.

Amendment No 3 [Game–2]—

Page 4, line 19 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(2)(a)]—After 'report' insert:

and accompanying receipts

Amendment No 4 [Game–2]—

Page 4, line 25 [clause 2, inserted section 12B(3)]—After 'report' insert:

and accompanying receipts

These amendments are to ensure that receipts are included with the report for verification, and that the report is prepared as prescribed in the bill.

The Hon. C. BONAROS: We support the amendments.

The Hon. H.M. GIROLAMO: We agree.

The Hon. R.A. SIMMS: We support the amendments.

Amendments carried; clause as amended passed.

Title passed.

Bill reported with amendments.

Third Reading

The Hon. S.L. GAME (18:13): I move:

That this bill be now read a third time.

I would like to acknowledge that I am amongst many hardworking and honourable colleagues, many of whom have a long history of advocacy for transparency and greater accountability, and I am appreciative of their support for this bill. I want to acknowledge that this bill has absolutely been a collaborative effort from the very beginning with my Liberal colleagues, in particular the Hon. Heidi Girolamo. I understand the Hon. Matt Cowdrey will be pursuing this bill in the lower house.

I want to acknowledge the support from SA-Best and the Greens, who absolutely believe in and advocate for greater government transparency. I understand the government is not opposing the bill. That is the right thing to do, and it is an opportunity to gain respect from the public, provided games of delay are not played in the lower house.

The public does not hold great regard for politicians. That is my clear impression since entering politics over a year ago. Rightly or wrongly, that is the perception, and we must endeavour to do something about it. Not only do many see politicians as incompetent, they see them as untrustworthy. There is much mistrust, particularly from the public towards politicians with regard to their frugality on ministerial trips.

The perception of unnecessary spending of taxpayer dollars on luxurious trips—such as the Premier's five-night $150,000 trip to Japan and South Korea, the Treasurer's $75,000 eight-day trip to the United States, and the ability of the Deputy Premier to rack up $72,000 in trip costs—does nothing to change the public's low opinion of greed and misjudgement by their elected representatives.

The public want to know who is going on the trip, what is their purpose and what is the value out of every minister, staffer and public sector employee. This ministerial travel report bill will apply to every trip outside South Australia, and it is important that we capture interstate and international trips. Transparency and communication of added value will be easily accessible to the public by passing this ministerial travel report amendment bill.

The tabled report will clearly state the reason for and activities on the trip, but it goes further: how much was spent by every minister, staffer and public sector employee on flights, other travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Disclosure should not require the efforts of a freedom of information request. This information is the right of every taxpayer who funded it and will, on assent of this bill, be required to be incorporated, with receipts, into a report that is tabled in parliament, becoming a public document within 45 days.

To state the obvious, none of us are here are elite and none of us should be treating ourselves to elite lives and experiences on taxpayer dollars. To do so would reflect a deep misunderstanding of our role and show one to be either completely out of touch with the hardships faced by many or simply not caring. There is a big difference between viewing oneself as elite and understanding the responsibility of privilege. We are all in here privileged individuals. With this privilege comes responsibility to give back and contribute.

I know many of my parliamentary colleagues understand this, with proven track records of giving and self-sacrificing to the communities they represent, but we in this place must demonstrate to the public a consistent understanding of our role as public servants and that we have genuine empathy and respect for the lives of those who are struggling. Reports of first-class business trips, five-star hotels and luxury meals on taxpayer dollars do not help public confidence. It is damaging for everyone.

My own personal view is that politicians can upgrade themselves from economy to business class on their own salary, if they deem that necessary. Accommodation needs to be safe and secure, but greater respect from the public would be attained by showing more restraint with public spending. I urge the government to set and disclose a cap on food and beverage spending. This would demonstrate respect for the people we represent, many of whom cannot pay their rent—if they have somewhere to rent—and struggle to pay their electricity and grocery bills.

An expensive bottle of champagne on the government purse might seem a drop in the ocean within the government's budget, but it all adds up and, importantly, reflects a deeper issue: that of a mindset problem that can pervade all areas of decision-making, a misunderstanding of elite versus privilege and our role in this place.

I know many of my colleagues agree completely with my views, and that is why I have obtained unanimous support from my upper house Liberal colleagues and crossbench members, but we must show the public that we are prepared to pass this legislation in both houses, standardising spending across ministerial departments with timely, transparent reporting. I wish this bill speedy passage through the lower house, and will be keeping a close eye on its progress.

Bill read a third time and passed.

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