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Legislative Council - Fifty-Second Parliament, First Session (52-1)
2011-06-22 Daily Xml
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MINISTER'S REMARKS

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS (15:10): I seek leave to make a brief explanation before asking the minister a question on the minister's personal abuse of members In the Legislative Council.

Leave granted.

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: On 18 May, I asked a series of questions and revealed some information that government ministers, such as minister Rau and minister Koutsantonis, had been undertaking professional media training from the sports reporter at Channel 10, Mr Mark Aiston, at a cost of $2,000 for four hours of training. In the course of the response, as most members would recognise, the minister resorted to significant personal abuse of the questioner. She said:

...the honourable member comes in here and...makes...snide allegations...Time and time again he comes in here with completely unsubstantiated allegations. He never tables any support for his allegations. He never presents any evidence, not an FOI or something that he has gained that he can get up and read out. No...not even a dodgy document...besmirching their names with all sorts of snide innuendo...He has no supporting evidence and no documentation, and we know that time and time again he does that. It is despicable and cowardly...I have said that in this place before, as he cowers under the protection of these privileged walls.

Etc.

The Hon. P. Holloway: It sounds pretty well spot on.

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: The Hon. Mr Holloway says that it is spot on. Within 24 hours, the government through the minister's office, confirmed the accuracy of story. Within 24 hours, Mr Mark Aiston's company confirmed the accuracy of the story. So, within 24 hours, the claims that had been made in this chamber had been confirmed not only by the private sector operator but also by the ministers involved in relation to the media training. My questions to the minister are as follows:

1. Is the minister embarrassed that her personal attacks and denials on this particular issue were so wrong?

2. Does the minister now agree that she misled this council on 18 May by dismissing these questions as completely unsubstantiated, snide, despicable, cowardly and besmirching people's reputations?

3. Will the minister in future at least bother to check the facts before she resorts to personal abuse of members in this chamber as she tries to avoid answering questions in this particular place?

4. Is the minister aware that journalists, commentators and even some of her own backbench colleagues are laughing at her ham-fisted and childish attempts to resort to personal abuse—

The Hon. P. HOLLOWAY: Point of order, Mr President.

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: —to avoid answering—

The PRESIDENT: Order!

The Hon. P. HOLLOWAY: What we have heard from Mr Lucas is just an example of the very abuse that he is complaining about. I put it to you, Mr President, that that statement is unparliamentary. It has comments that are unparliamentary, and it is not a question. It is not a question; it should be ruled out of order.

The PRESIDENT: The honourable minister can deal with the question in any way she thinks appropriate.

The Hon. G.E. GAGO (Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Public Sector Management, Minister for the Status of Women, Minister for Consumer Affairs, Minister for Government Enterprises, Minister for Gambling) (15:14): Thank you, Mr President. It certainly does not deserve much at all, but I can quite clearly say that I stand by all of my previous comments—every single one of them.

The Hon. R.I. Lucas: You didn't tell the truth.

The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Lucas should accept the answer. The Hon. Mr Holloway.

The Hon. R.I. Lucas: The lies and untruths?

The Hon. G.E. GAGO: That is unparliamentary. The member has made unparliamentary remarks, Mr President, and I ask that he withdraw them.

The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Lucas should withdraw.

The Hon. R.I. Lucas: I won't withdraw.

The Hon. G.E. GAGO: He called me a liar, Mr President.

The Hon. R.I. Lucas: I did not. I did not say that. I said, 'The lies and untruths.'

The Hon. G.E. GAGO: He said I told lies.

The Hon. R.I. Lucas: No, I said, 'The lies and untruths.' I didn't call you a liar. The President has ruled 'lies' previously by you when you used the word as parliamentary.

The PRESIDENT: Order! The Hon. Mr Lucas should withdraw the remarks of 'lies'.

The Hon. R.I. Lucas: No, I'm not withdrawing. You ruled—

Members interjecting:

The PRESIDENT: Order! The. Hon. Mr Lucas, by not withdrawing the remarks, shows that the minister's answer a few weeks ago was fairly accurate. The Hon. Mr Holloway.

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