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Legislative Council - Fifty-Third Parliament, Second Session (53-2)
2015-09-22 Daily Xml
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Lobbyists Bill

Second Reading

Adjourned debate on second reading.

(Continued from 10 September 2015.)

The Hon. R.I. LUCAS (17:11): I rise on behalf of Liberal members to support the second reading of the Lobbyists Bill. As the government has indicated through the debate in the House of Assembly and through public statements, this is a package of measures that the parliament is being asked to consider in relation to members' of parliament accountability as well as remuneration.

This bill, together with the parliamentary remuneration bill, which we will debate in a moment—there is also to be a subsequent debate later in the session on the issue of statement of principles for members of parliament in terms of expectations in relation to their behaviour, in particular in the chamber but also as members of parliament—is part of, as the government has labelled it, a public integrity package, or an accountability package, in relation to members of parliament.

This bill, particularly with the companion bill, the remuneration bill, needs to be seen as part of a package. The government's position, which the Liberal Party has indicated support for, is that there will be greater restrictions on members of parliament post their period of employment within the parliament, in particular their period of employment as ministers of the Crown. As result of those restrictions on post-parliamentary employment prospects, there will be some adjustments made to the remuneration position of members of parliament generally.

The main aspect of the Lobbyists Bill is that once a minister of the Crown retires from parliament there will be a four-year restriction placed on that minister from registering as a lobbyist and engaging in lobbying. There are some guidelines by way of a lobbyist register which exist at the moment, but this extends the restriction that currently exist for ministers from, I think, two years to four years. The requirements in relation to ministers' potential for work after a parliamentary career are significantly restricted, at least for that four-year period.

The other key difference is that there are significant penalties for breaches of these provisions under the Lobbyists Bill; that is, if a minister of the Crown, having retired from parliament, was to engage in lobbying and act as a lobbyist, and if found guilty of that, there are penalties, including significant financial penalties and potential terms of imprisonment. It is quite clear that these breaches of requirements under this legislation are to be viewed as serious issues, punishable by significant penalties, and clearly that is a significant difference from the current arrangements, which essentially do not have any significant financial penalties or terms of imprisonment for breaches of the lobbyist register.

There will also be restrictions on ministerial staff, if I can use that phrase and then choose to define it. Members will be aware that, for example, a minister may well have up to 15 or 20 staff in his or her ministerial office, but a small number of those, perhaps five or six generally, will be what would be known as ministerial staff or ministerial contract staff. They are employed under contracts with the Premier.

They are the ones whose salary and positions must be gazetted once a year in terms of their employment within a minister's office, and they are distinguished from other staff, such as ministerial liaison officers or administrative staff who, for example, might be public servants who are seconded into ministers' offices for a period of time. Those MLOs and administrative staff, for example, are seconded into the office and then, at the end of that period, go back to their positions within the Public Service. The ministerial contract staff generally have no such fallback provision.

I want to correct something I just put on the record by way of the restrictions on ministers. I refer to clause 13 of the bill, which states that the ministerial restriction is actually for two years, not the four years, as I indicated earlier in my second reading contribution. Subclause 13(1) provides:

(a) the following provisions apply in relation to a person who ceases to hold office as a Minister:

(i) the person must not, during the period of 2 years after ceasing to hold that office, engage in lobbying;

(ii) the person is not entitled to apply for registration during that period.

If I can correct the record, my earlier references to four years were incorrect: it is a two-year restriction for ministers under subclause 13(1). Subclause 13(1)(b) refers to the persons engaged as members of the minister's personal staff, as I have indicated; their period of restriction is for 12 months. Similarly, under 13(1)(b), for persons who hold the office of parliamentary secretary, their restriction is for 12 months, not two years. Thirdly, members of the SAES (the South Australian Executive Service; they are executives in the public sector) are also restricted for a period of 12 months.

In relation to parliamentary secretaries, executives and ministerial staff, the restriction is for a period of 12 months, and they are not allowed to engage in lobbying in respect of matters dealt with by the person in the ordinary course of holding that office. It is intended to prevent them from lobbying in areas within which they worked during their term of employment either as a parliamentary secretary, Public Service executive or ministerial staffer.

The different restriction for a minister relates to any form of lobbying, not just lobbying in relation to their particular ministerial portfolio. The restriction on ministers is much broader and for a two-year period. The restriction on parliamentary secretaries, executives and ministerial staff, is for a shorter period of 12 months and limited to the areas within which they were essentially working whilst they were employed.

Another new element of the lobbying bill is a new restriction which essentially says that a lobbyist can be a lobbyist but cannot also be appointed to a government board. There is no such restriction at the moment; that is, someone can be registered as a lobbyist and can also be appointed to government boards and committees. Without putting it on the public record, there are one or two prominent current lobbyists, former ministers, who have been appointed to government boards at the moment.

This new restriction, if passed by the parliament, will mean that persons in that position will need to make a choice: they can continue to be a lobbyist, but they then have to resign their position having been appointed to various government boards, or they can continue to serve on government boards but they will have to remove themselves from being registered as a lobbyist and undertaking lobbying as a financial activity.

That is a new restriction on both lobbyists and board members. It obviously does not relate just to former ministers or members of parliament because there could be and probably are some people at the moment who are lobbyists who have also been appointed to boards who are not former members of parliament or former ministers, and they will have to make that decision if this legislation passes the parliament.

Another major aspect of the legislation which is new in South Australia but not new in a number of other jurisdictions is that success fees will be prohibited. Subclause 14(1) states:

(1) A person must not give or receive, or agree to the giving or receipt of, a success fee for carrying on the business of lobbying.

Maximum penalty:

(a) in the case of a body corporate—$150,000;

(b) in the case of a natural person—$30,000 or imprisonment for 2 years.

Members would be aware that it is widely understood that in the recent past some lobbyists have been paid very significant success fees for successful lobbying, particularly in relation to development applications being assisted through the planning and development process in South Australia. If this legislation is successful, similar success fees in the future will be prohibited, with significant penalties if those provisions are breached at all.

I think they are probably the major new initiatives. I guess I should address some brief comments. The Register of Lobbyists in future will be significantly more detailed than the existing Register of Lobbyists. Clause 10(2) outlines significant new details which will need to be provided, including:

(a) the name, including any business name or trading name, of the person;

(b) the business address of the person;

(c) the ABN of the person;

(d) the name of each owner of the person's business and any partners or major shareholders in the business;

(e) the name of each employee of, or person otherwise engaged by, the person and their positions in the business;

(f) any condition of registration applying in relation to the person under section 13;

(g) each return provided by the person under section 8(1);

(h) any details provided to the Chief Executive under section 11(1)(a) in relation to new lobbying agreements;

(i) any other details considered appropriate by the Chief Executive or prescribed by regulation.

So there are significant new details that are required to be placed on the Register of Lobbyists by lobbyists in future. There are provisions which we did discuss with the government in terms of clause 12—Exclusion of information from register. Initially, we did have some concerns with this, but the government was prepared to make some amendment to the original provisions. Under clause 12—Exclusion of information from register:

(1) The Chief Executive may…on application by a…person, exempt some or all of the person's details provided in a return under section 8(1) or provided under section 11(1)(a) from inclusion in the register if satisfied that the details consist of—

(a) personal information of a confidential nature; or

(b) information that has a commercial or other value that would be, or could reasonably be expected to be, destroyed or diminished if the information were disclosed—

and a couple of other reasons for exclusions. In reading that, can I indicate that this is a time-limited exemption. Under subclause 12(3), it states:

(3) An exemption granted on an application by a person under subsection (1)…

(d) remains in force until—

(i) 1 January next following its grant; or

(ii) such time as it may be revoked by the Chief Executive by notice in writing to the person (following a determination by the Chief Executive on a review under paragraph (b)(i) that the grounds for exemption no longer exist),

whichever is sooner.

Our understanding of those provisions, as described to us, is that, in essence, whilst the exemption can be given, that exemption is removed no later than 1 January the following year. That detail would then need to be placed on the public record.

As explained and outlined to us, this was not a device to allow a permanent prevention of information being provided on the register: it was, in essence, a time-limited exemption, and certainly by no later than 1 January the following year, that exemption is removed and that information required by the legislation would then be part of the public register and available to be scrutinised by all and sundry. So there are some significant changes there in relation to the operation of the register as well.

With that, I indicate that, as I said, this is part of a package that we have indicated publicly and through the debate in the House of Assembly that the Liberal Party is supporting; therefore, we do support the second reading of the Lobbyists Bill.

Debate adjourned on motion of Hon. T.T. Ngo.

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