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House of Assembly - Fifty-Fourth Parliament, First Session (54-1)
2018-11-13 Daily Xml
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Parliamentary Procedure

Standing and Sessional Orders Suspension

Mr MALINAUSKAS (Croydon—Leader of the Opposition) (11:02): I move:

That standing and sessional orders be so far suspended as to enable the introduction forthwith and passage of a bill through all stages without delay.

The SPEAKER: I have counted the house and, as an absolute majority of the whole number of members of the house is present, I accept the motion. Do you have a seconder?

The Hon. A. Koutsantonis: Yes, sir.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I rise to speak on the important matter of suspending standing orders so that the parliament can deal with a bill that seeks to address an urgent matter that we believe is a very real and legitimate concern to the South Australian community, particularly residents who exist in the inner southern suburbs and, more specifically, in the area of Pasadena. There is no higher obligation or higher duty on all the representatives here in this parliament than to ensure that we do everything we can to maximise community safety.

That is particularly true when we contemplate the most vulnerable members of our community, and there are no more important members of our community than our children. Each and every one of us should take incredibly seriously every opportunity that we have to maximise the safety and security of the children within our community, which means, as a parliament, we must act nimbly and we must be agile when we have an opportunity to respond to very real concerns that our community has but, more importantly, when it comes to any threat to community safety, particularly in regard to our children.

All of us who have been paying attention and all of us who care about residents within the Pasadena area would be aware that there is a real concern that Mr Vivian Deboo is currently out on bail despite having pleaded guilty to charges of a serious sexual nature against children. I think all of us would be of the view that it would not be satisfactory if this parliament did not respond to those very real, legitimate and immediate concerns. We in the opposition have decided to act. We have put together—

An honourable member: It's only taken you two years.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Well, you should learn the facts. We have put together a piece of legislation that would make it crystal clear to the District Court that the option of home detention should not be made available in regard to offences of a serious sexual nature, particularly against children.

This parliament has repeatedly contemplated this question. The most recent occasion on which this parliament contemplated this question was in respect of the overhaul of the Sentencing Act, which passed this parliament with bipartisan support. It passed this parliament with the support of the then shadow attorney-general, now Attorney-General. At the time, the then attorney-general, the member for Enfield, argued aptly that people who are found guilty of a child sex offence should not get access to home detention. The previous parliament decided to pass that legislation, providing an exemption to some people under special circumstances. We believe—

The Hon. D.C. van Holst Pellekaan: You guys rejected our amendments.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Learn the facts. We believe—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order! I am advised that we are not putting the question at the moment. The debate needs to be confined just to the reasons to suspend at this point.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: We believe that no-one who is found guilty of a child sex offence should get access to home detention—

The Hon. D.C. van Holst Pellekaan: You're fixing your mistake.

The SPEAKER: Minister for Energy!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: There is an immediate matter of concern here. People in the area of Pasadena are not really too concerned about what legislation was passed in 2017 or what legislation was passed in 2016—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order, members on my right!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —that had bipartisan support.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Members interjecting:

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Mr Speaker, if you do not provide protection—

The SPEAKER: Order, members on my right! The Leader of the Opposition has the call.

The Hon. J.A.W. Gardner: You were the minister who argued for them to have rights.

The SPEAKER: Minister for Education!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: What the opposition is seeking to do today is suspend standing orders to deal with this immediate issue. It is of immediate concern. We know, as a matter of fact, that the matter is currently before the District Court and at any moment, as the Attorney-General well knows, the District Court could hand down a decision, and at the moment there is very a real possibility—

The Hon. V.A. Chapman: Rubbish! It's 23 November before it even comes back on. Don't mislead the house.

The SPEAKER: Deputy Premier!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —that the District Court could grant the application being made by Mr Deboo to release Mr Deboo on home detention. I do not think anyone opposite or anyone on our side of the house believes that would be a good outcome, so let's deal with it.

If the government believe that there needs to be a further overhaul of the Sentencing Act, so be it. They are the government and the opposition stands ready and willing to work with the government on that matter. In fact, I have made it crystal clear in all the remarks I have made publicly thus far that we would like to work with the government on the bill that we seek to put into the parliament today. If the government have their own version of legislation to deal with this issue, the opposition and I stand ready, willing and able to work with the government on that.

However, this parliament needs to acknowledge that there is an immediate concern that needs to be addressed. There is an immediate matter before the court. The residents of Pasadena want to see swift action and, let us be honest about it, I know that the member for Elder is as concerned about this as I am. I know that the member for Elder would not want to see Mr Deboo getting around in the community in a permanent way—

The Hon. V.A. Chapman: He's there now. He's actually living there.

The SPEAKER: Deputy Premier!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —as a result of being granted home detention—

The Hon. A. Koutsantonis interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —which is why we need to eliminate that possibility and act now. There is no time to waste. There is only an opportunity to act. People do not want to see the partisan politics and partisan rhetoric that we have seen come from the Attorney-General on this matter thus far. They only want to see us act. There is an opportunity to do so; let's grab it.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN (Bragg—Deputy Premier, Attorney-General) (11:10): I indicate that the government will not be supporting the motion before the house—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —and whilst the Leader of the Opposition—

Ms Stinson: The people of Pasadena will be pretty upset. They will be pretty upset in Pasadena.

The SPEAKER: Member for Badcoe!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —has attempted in his—

The Hon. S.C. Mullighan interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Member for Lee!

Mr Cregan interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The member for Kavel is called to order.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Whilst the Leader of the Opposition has attempted to rewrite history in that submission to the parliament in support of this motion, we will revisit that issue over a period of time in relation to the scandalous inaccuracy in relation to those matters, but one of the matters that he presented—and the only one—the basis upon which this legislation needed to be received, considered and passed immediately, was the imminent danger of a case being determined by the District Court in South Australia that could result in the release of this party into the community, presumably without some supervision. Let us just consider the facts on that and the grounds that have been presented.

Firstly, the relevant case is before the District Court. It is not listed until the end of this month to receive submissions regarding sentencing in relation to this case. Whether or not a sentence is considered at that time is still a matter, of course, before the court, but that is the current position. There is no immediate—

Mr Malinauskas: So let's eliminate the possibility.

The SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, please!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —threat—

Mr Malinauskas: Just treat us the same way you did them.

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —of a case being passed in which there is a risk of that occurring. Secondly, the party in question is living in the community at present, as we speak. He is on bail in relation to that matter and obviously—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —that is a matter that is of concern to at least one of the victims, who made that public at the time of submissions being made in relation to victim impact statements some 10 or 14 days ago in the District Court. I think everyone in this parliament would understand the reasons why, but the reality is that the accused is living in the community as we speak.

Secondly, it is mischievous of the Leader of the Opposition to present this as being, at any time, a position that could turn around. As I said, we will revisit in the general debate in this house the question of the unmeritorious and inaccurate presentation of the Leader of the Opposition as to the history of the sentencing law on this matter. It sounded to me today more like a guilty plea of someone falling on the mercy of the parliament for what they failed to do over the last two years.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order! Order, members!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: If the Leader of the Opposition wants to revisit his statements in 2016 in relation to home detention, which is—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Point of order.

The SPEAKER: Order! Deputy Premier, we have a point of order. Please be seated. The member for West Torrens.

Mr Malinauskas: You supported the legislation. You voted for it.

The SPEAKER: Order, Leader of the Opposition! You have four minutes right of reply. Member for West Torrens.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Point of order: personal reflections, sir, and substance of the debate. The Attorney-General is not arguing against the suspension about the merits of the bill.

The SPEAKER: Yes, I have the point of order. I ask the Deputy Premier to please stick to the debate in question. I remind members that the Leader of the Opposition does have four minutes left after this. There are 10 minutes each side.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Thank you. I will use my entire seven minutes in that instance. The position is this—

The Hon. S.C. Mullighan: That would be unusual.

The SPEAKER: The member for Lee is call to order.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —there is no clear and present danger that we—

Mr Malinauskas: Seven minutes of arguing for inaction.

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —as a parliament should consider this matter without going through a reasonable process. A copy of the bill was forwarded to my office—

The Hon. A. Piccolo: What, you want to consult with paedophiles first?

The SPEAKER: The member for Light is call to order.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —late this afternoon which, on first blush, does three things in a one-page bandaid fix of what they see as the problem.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: First, it prohibits, under a new section 70A, a provision for child sex offenders to have access to home detention at all under the act. Secondly, it purports to be retrospective. Thirdly, it purports to capture someone who conspires to commit such an offence but fails to take into account any attempt. So at first blush there are some significant defects in this legislation.

It is beyond any comprehension to me how the Leader of the Opposition can come into the parliament and present a bill to deal with child sex offenders, yet lets terrorists and murderers and any other sexual offenders still not be covered. It is unbelievable to think that the—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order, members on my left, please!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: It's unbelievable to think that the—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The Deputy Premier has the call.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: The only reason that it is comprehensible—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Point of order: she is arguing about the merits of the bill or otherwise—

The SPEAKER: Debate, irrelevance.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: —rather than the suspension. Debate, irrelevance and personal reflections.

The SPEAKER: I again respectfully ask the Deputy Premier to please keep to the question at the moment.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Firstly, there has to be some reason why there should be some expeditious processing, and that does not exist, notwithstanding the submission of the Leader of the Opposition.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order! Members on my left, please.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Secondly, to progress a bill which is defective in its effect and operation—then of course we would not. It is clear to us that this is just another political stunt by the Leader of the Opposition, who is exhausting himself in terms of being excluded from relevance in relation to this debate. The third reason is this.

Mr Malinauskas: One day you will lead. One day you might be able to try to lead.

The SPEAKER: Leader, please.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: If the Leader of the Opposition himself even read the paper this morning—just read the paper, leaving everything else aside—he would have seen the plaintive submission to this parliament that we do not just have a knee-jerk reaction on this issue. He made it very clear—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —that what he wanted—and of course we have not had an opportunity to confer with other victims on this matter—was a considered debate on any reform in relation to sentencing in this matter. This is what he wants—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: He has gone public and said, 'Please don't have a knee-jerk reaction. We want there to be a reasoned argument in relation to what is presented for reform. We want some bipartisan support on it, and we want it to be done properly.'

The Hon. S.C. Mullighan interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Member for Lee!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: He doesn't want to have—

Mr Malinauskas interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The Leader of the Opposition is called to order.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —clearly a one-page, flimsy—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —bandaid fix to something that is a very serious matter.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Members on my left will be departing. The leader does have a right of reply after this, if he is still in the chamber.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: So for those reasons—no imminent danger, poorly drafted bill, no consideration or consultation and, contrary to the interests of one of the public statements of the victim who is saying, 'Please, slow down—

The Hon. A. Koutsantonis interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The member for West Torrens is called to order.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: —do this properly.' We are a grown-up government and that is exactly what we will do.

The SPEAKER: If the leader speaks he closes debate.

The Hon. S.C. Mullighan: You've still got three minutes. I thought you said you are going to use them all.

The SPEAKER: Member for Lee!

The Hon. S.C. Mullighan interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Member for Lee, please. Leader of the Opposition.

Mr MALINAUSKAS (Croydon—Leader of the Opposition) (11:18): It is clear why the Attorney-General did not use her full time allocated—because she is simply trying to argue—

The SPEAKER: Leader, please do not provoke the government. Let us get on with it.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —a case for inaction. What I am arguing for, and what the opposition is seeking to do here today, is to suspend standing orders so as to act. There is a real, live matter that is currently before the courts that needs to be dealt with. Again, I reiterate the sentiments that I initiated yesterday publicly and again implore the house to consider today—that is, that the people and the residents in the constituency of Elder—

Mrs Power: Want to know why you didn't support the amendments two years ago.

The SPEAKER: The member for Elder is called to order.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: The residents in Pasadena, and you don't know the facts, want—

The Hon. A. Piccolo: Well, support it now.

The SPEAKER: The member for Light is called to order.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —and expect people to act.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The member for Mawson is called to order.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: They want and expect this parliament—

The Hon. L.W.K. Bignell interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The member for Mawson is called to order.

The Hon. J.A.W. Gardner: You voted for it. You voted against our amendments.

The SPEAKER: The Minister for Education is called to order.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: They want and expect this parliament to respond in an agile way to a set of circumstances that we are now asked to deal with. The only question that needs—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order, members on my right!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —to be contemplated by members in this chamber is whether or not there is a genuine possibility that Mr Deboo will be granted his application, currently before the courts, to be released into the community. I did not hear once the Attorney-General in her remarks stand up and guarantee that Mr Deboo will not be released—which means, of course, that there is a real risk that he will be released. What this parliament needs to do, what members of this chamber need to do, particularly those members who purport to represent the constituency of Pasadena—

An honourable member: What you didn't do two years ago?

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —is vote in favour of this bill—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order, members!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —and then we can have a debate—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —then we can have a debate around the merits of the bill. You cannot vote against the suspension of standing orders and then purport to be responding to a legitimate concern. If there are ways we can improve this bill, if the government or the Attorney-General have a view about the way this bill can be improved, let's hear it.

Mrs Power: Then you would have done it with notice.

The SPEAKER: Member for Elder!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Let's hear—

The Hon. J.A.W. Gardner: Do it with notice. Take it seriously.

The SPEAKER: Minister for Education!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Let's hear from the government what they believe can be done to improve this bill. However, if they vote against the speech and standing orders, then today this parliament will not deal with the bill, which means the parliament will be kicking down the road the alive risk that Mr Deboo will be released into this community.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I ask the government—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order, members on my right!

Mr Ellis interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Member for Narungga is called to order. Is the leader finished?

Mr MALINAUSKAS: No, I am still trying to—

An honourable member interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I ask the government, the opposition—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Deputy Premier. The member for Elder is warned.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Mr Speaker—

The Hon. C.L. Wingard: People are starting to laugh at you.

The SPEAKER: The Minister for Police is called to order.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order, members on my left! The member for Playford is called to order. The leader has a minute to go.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr MALINAUSKAS: The only thing—

The Hon. J.A.W. Gardner interjecting:

The SPEAKER: The Minister for Education is warned.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: —I ask, the only thing the opposition seeks, is nothing more than to debate the bill. Give us the opportunity to debate this bill, to give the parliament the opportunity to vote on whether or not there is a need for immediate action. We are seeking only to debate the bill. What on the Notice Paper could the government seriously argue is more important than keeping the residents of Pasadena safe?

We contend there is nothing more important than dealing with this. Let's have a debate on the bill. Let's debate whether or not our bill provides the requisite security that the residents of Pasadena want and deserve. Let's ensure we vote on this bill to determine whether or not this parliament is serious about its obligation to keep the community safe.

The SPEAKER: Just to clarify it, the Leader of the Opposition, as the mover of the motion, spoke in favour of the proposed suspension motion and the Deputy Premier has spoken against. The question is that the motion for suspension be agreed to.

Ayes 20

Noes 22

Majority 2

AYES
Bedford, F.E. Bell, T.S. Bettison, Z.L.
Bignell, L.W.K. Boyer, B.I. Brock, G.G.
Brown, M.E. (teller) Close, S.E. Gee, J.P.
Hildyard, K.A. Hughes, E.J. Koutsantonis, A.
Malinauskas, P. Mullighan, S.C. Odenwalder, L.K.
Piccolo, A. Picton, C.J. Rau, J.R.
Stinson, J.M. Wortley, D.
NOES
Basham, D.K.B. Chapman, V.A. Cowdrey, M.J.
Cregan, D. Duluk, S. Ellis, F.J.
Gardner, J.A.W. Harvey, R.M. (teller) Luethen, P.
McBride, N. Murray, S. Patterson, S.J.R.
Pederick, A.S. Pisoni, D.G. Power, C.
Sanderson, R. Speirs, D.J. Teague, J.B.
Treloar, P.A. van Holst Pellekaan, D.C. Whetstone, T.J.
Wingard, C.L.
PAIRS
Cook, N.F. Knoll, S.K. Weatherill, J.W.
Marshall, S.S.
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