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Legislative Council - Fifty-First Parliament, Second Session (51-2)
2007-11-14 Daily Xml
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TOBACCO PRODUCTS REGULATION (INDIRECT ORDERS) AMENDMENT BILL

Second Reading

Adjourned debate on second reading.

(Continued from 30 May 2007. Page 194.)

The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY (20:11): I rise to indicate that the government does not support the measures proposed in this bill. The issue of tobacco sales conducted via the internet and other electronic means is a highly complex one that has already been addressed at both state and federal levels. Prior to the Hon. Sandra Kanck's introducing the proposed amendments, the issue had already been addressed by seeking advice from the Crown Solicitor to determine how the Tobacco Products Regulation Act 1997 applies in its current form to online retailers of tobacco products.

While this government acknowledges that this issue is very complicated and there is real concern regarding potential access to tobacco products by minors, action is already under way to address this issue. The Tobacco Products Regulation Act 1997 addresses tobacco sales in a comprehensive manner, and this government continues to address tobacco smoking in a proactive manner. Moreover, under section 38A of the Tobacco Products Regulation Act, it is already an offence to sell or supply tobacco products to a person aged under 18. This issue needs to be considered very carefully before rushing into changing the Tobacco Products Regulation Act.

Internet tobacco sales can occur through websites located anywhere in the world, making this area extremely complex to regulate primarily at the state level. The sale of tobacco products over the internet has also been addressed at the federal level; indeed, all other Australian jurisdictions also consider this to be a very serious matter and they have committed a working party of the Intergovernmental Committee on Drugs to address the issue.

Internet sales and advertising of tobacco products were discussed at the most recent meeting of the Ministerial Council on Drugs Strategy held here in Adelaide in May. The Australian government is currently considering amending federal laws to address internet tobacco sales. This government supports the position of national legislation to restrict tobacco sales over the internet and, through the ministerial council, it is working collaboratively towards restricting retail sales and advertising of tobacco products over the internet and banning sales to people under 18 years.

The government does not support a rushed amendment to the Tobacco Products Regulation Act 1997 to effect a total ban on retail tobacco sales made by telephone, mail, facsimile transmission, internet and other electronic communications. We believe that a more effective way is to await national developments in this area while strengthening our state's licensing provision and associated controls under the Tobacco Products Regulation Act and taking into account the practicalities of transacting business over the internet. I assure the council that this process is already in motion.

The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK (20:14): As I indicated in my contribution this morning to another tobacco bill, concerning which the Hon. Sandra Kanck has lodged some amendments, we support this bill. I am bemused by the speaker beforehand who was self-righteous in his contribution this morning in relation to the government's bill, yet we have quite a sensible proposal before us in this bill which he chooses to oppose. A number of his interjections involved all this carry-on about 'What about the kids?'. I do not think anybody disagrees that we need to be protecting our young people from the take-up of smoking.

This measure is aimed at ways that young people may well be able to quite easily access, because there is no control at the point of receipt of the product. I note that the Ministerial Council on Drugs in its joint communiqué of 16 May 2007 stated that it will be looking into the issues of stopping the advertising. That is part of what the commonwealth has jurisdiction over but, in fact, the government's contribution in opposing this bill is actually incorrect, because point of delivery and proof of age measures are well within the state jurisdiction.

The Western Australian government is also looking at ways of dealing with this. I think it is a good thing for South Australia to be in front in terms of making some reforms. I find the government's position on this bill totally inconsistent with its own bill, but I think it is just a case of, 'We didn't think of it first, therefore we oppose it.' As somebody quipped earlier, Wednesday's parliamentary day is no day for the government.

There is one argument against this bill, and that is that people with disabilities would obviously find it much easier to access things by electronic or postal means. I do not think that that consideration can override the potential for young people to obtain cigarettes by this means; therefore, the Liberal Party strongly supports this bill.

The Hon. M. PARNELL (20:16): The Greens are pleased to support this bill, which will make it more difficult for under-age people to acquire tobacco products. I, too, am surprised that the government chooses not to support this bill. I agree with the government, that a national approach is desirable; however, this bill has been on the Notice Paper since 30 May, which is nearly six months. I for one am not convinced by arguments which say that a resolution of this issue at a national level is just around the corner and that that should be a reason for us to oppose this bill.

It does not concern me that the other states have not yet got to this stage. I think it is inevitable that all states will agree that, if we are to protect our young people from tobacco, we need to make it as difficult as possible for them to acquire it. We do have checks and balances at the shop counter, where the person at the counter can see the age of the prospective purchaser. Those checks do not exist when the order has been placed by email, for example, and the products are posted to the person who placed the order. I am happy to support this bill, as I support all legislation that discourages smoking and makes it difficult for children to get access to cigarettes.

The Hon. D.G.E. HOOD (20:18): Family First also supports this legislation for the reasons that have already been given and perhaps covering a little bit of the ground that has already been ploughed. Whilst the argument for introducing national legislation certainly makes good sense, I see no reason why we should not force the issue, which is exactly what putting this legislation forward will do.

The real issue is: how prevalent is the incidence of cigarettes being purchased from the internet? When I began the research on this bill, I found that it is actually more prevalent than I thought. I will quote from statistics. The Independent Budget Office of New York City indicated last month that people who buy what they call under-tax cigarettes—that is, black market cigarettes—comprise some 27 per cent of all New Yorkers and, of those, 8 per cent get them from toll-free numbers and 6 per cent from the internet. So, 14 per cent of those purchasers of under-tax cigarettes are looking to the kind of media that the honourable member targets with this bill. Sadly, Australia often follows America in such things, so I would not be surprised if that number grows in years to come.

Secondly, New Jersey research indicated that purchasing of cigarettes over the internet increased for at least one-off purchases from 1.1 per cent in 2000 to some 6.7 per cent in 2002, with regular internet purchasing over the same period increasing from 0.8 per cent to 3.1 per cent. In 2005, Prudential Securities in the US reported that 14 per cent of the total US market comprised internet tobacco sales. So, it is substantial and for that reason we think it is timely to act at this moment.

A significant question that has been raised by other contributors to this bill is that of jurisdiction. That is, in considering our position on this bill we had to decide whether jurisdictional issues that this bill raises with respect to purchasing on the internet could actually be tackled, if you like, by this bill. We are satisfied that they can be. There are some difficulties in enacting such legislation because it is difficult to enforce, but we do not see that as a barrier or a good enough reason not to enact such a bill.

Family First has made its position on these matters quite clear, I think, in the time that we have been represented in this parliament. We support the bill and commend the honourable member for introducing it.

The Hon. SANDRA KANCK (20:21): I was obviously interested in the comments that the Hon. Mr Wortley made, that we should not rush this. I do not think a bill that was introduced on 30 May and is being voted on 14 November has been rushed. He says that the Australian government is considering legislation and that we should await national developments. I have heard that argument before. In 1996, I introduced a bill for labelling of genetically modified foods. I was told that it was inappropriate because we needed to have legislation at a national level. So, more than 11 years later I am still waiting for that national legislation.

The Hon. B.V. Finnigan interjecting:

The Hon. SANDRA KANCK: I think that Christmas will beat it, that is for sure. This is an important issue. We know that thousands of people die early because of their use of tobacco. We know tobacco is one of the most potent drugs that we have, and it is a legal one. It is so easy, with young children who are so savvy with the internet, to be able to order something like this and to fake it, to say that Mum's not home when the cigarettes are delivered along with some other grocery items. I thank honourable members for their support: the opposition, the Greens and Family First.

Bill read a second time and taken through its remaining stages.

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