Appropriation Bill 2024

Estimates Committees

The Hon. A. PICCOLO (Light) (12:50): I bring up the report of Estimates Committee A and move:

That the report be received.

Motion carried.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: I bring up the minutes of proceedings of Estimates Committee A and move:

That the minutes of proceedings be incorporated in the Votes and Proceedings.

Motion carried.

Mr HUGHES (Giles) (12:51): I bring up the report of Estimates Committee B and move:

That the report be received.

Motion carried.

Mr HUGHES: I bring up the minutes of proceedings of Estimates Committee B and move:

That the minutes of proceedings be incorporated in the Votes and Proceedings.

Motion carried.

The Hon. J.K. SZAKACS (Cheltenham—Minister for Trade and Investment, Minister for Local Government, Minister for Veterans Affairs) (12:51): I move:

That the proposed expenditures referred to Estimates Committees A and B be agreed to.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO (Light) (12:51): I will make a brief contribution to this motion in terms of Estimates Committee A.

At the outset I would like to just advise members of this house that when it came to ratings, Committee A outstripped Committee B every day—in fact, we were at least in treble figures some days and Committee B barely made double figures some days. I am not casting any aspersion—

Mr Hughes: I am also going to have to respond to this.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: It is no reflection on the quality of the chairmanship or the ministers appearing in every chamber. All I can say is that the hard facts were that committee A led the way all the way. We were certainly the A-listers in this case, in this instance.

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Brown): I remind the member for Light that again it is unparliamentary to refer to any of the chambers in a particular negative light. Go ahead.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: You are quite right, Mr Acting Speaker, I stand here chastised by you. All I can say is the facts speak for themselves.

I will make a couple of observations. I would like to first of all thank the ministers and all their advisers for the diligent way they presented themselves to committee A. I cannot speak for committee B; I will let the Chair of committee B speak for them as it would be improper for me to talk about a committee which I was not on. I know how much work is involved in the preparation of these estimates committees. It is an important process.

I would like to also congratulate and thank the members of the opposition, in terms of the very civil way they undertook their duties when asking questions. Of the five days, there might have been 30 seconds where we went astray, but it was quite smooth, respectful and it was quite a good way to undertake the parliamentary business.

I think we have got to a situation where the estimates committee has evolved over time and the rules governing the estimates committees perhaps need to be reviewed, because at times—and I was accused of not being as lenient as the Chair of Estimates Committee B—I really could not see the connection between the question being asked and the budget line, or it was a very wide interpretation of the budget line we were discussing.

I must confess, I was being civil. People were getting along, so I let it flow. Like a good umpire, you let the game flow until there is an infraction. Having said that, I think I was turning a blind eye to some of the rules of the debate to achieve that outcome.

The Hon. J.K. Szakacs: Just like an umpire.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: Just like an umpire, yes. I think we need to look at that because it has evolved over time, and I think the evolution is not necessarily a bad thing. I am not suggesting that it is just on this occasion, and I am not suggesting it is only the opposition who have actually used the committee in a different way; our party, when we were in opposition, did the same thing.

I think it is time that perhaps we need to look at what the estimates committees do. I think our estimates committee, in terms of its actuality, is now similar to the Senate's estimates committee, but they are set up in different ways. We are actually now behaving in the way that they do—even though in their case they can directly interrogate public servants, while in our system we cannot—in terms of the area that they cover being very similar.

I think it is about time that we look at the rules regarding the committees, because it does put the Chair of the committee, and also the members of the committee and the ministers, in an unfair situation of not knowing what is going to be allowed, what is going to be disallowed and what can go forward. I do not have a problem at all with the way it has evolved—

An honourable member interjecting:

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: That may be a reform a bit too far.

An honourable member interjecting:

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Brown): Order!

An honourable member interjecting:

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: Well, I was going to say that it would be quite a new thing for the Leg Co to work those hours. As I said, I think the committee members behaved in a way that was appropriate for the chamber, and I thank the members of the committee for doing that.

Also, this time I noticed that there was quite a strong reduction in what you might call government questions, and that made more time available for the opposition to ask questions, which I think is appropriate. I also noticed that most ministers had dispensed with opening remarks, which again gave the opposition more time to ask questions. Even though estimates is not question time—I had to remind people of that occasionally—the estimates committee is really an opportunity for the members of the opposition to interrogate the budget line by line, and that is an important part of our process. Accountability is an important part of our political and parliamentary process.

I think, irrespective of which side of parliament you are on, we need to at least abide by some key principles if we are going to protect our democracy, and one of those is about accountability. I think the rules should be there, the principles should be there, irrespective of which party or group is in government. When we aim to achieve those higher ideals we all benefit from that.

As I said at the start, it was great to see that people actually tuned in. Somebody did make the quip that the departments with the most staff probably had the higher ratings. I am not sure that is the case, though it did concern me that, at one stage, committee B was not operational yet there were still 10 people streaming it. I am not sure if they just forgot to turn off their stream or they actually had not noticed a difference in the operation of the chamber.

An honourable member interjecting:

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: I am about to get told off again by the Acting Speaker.

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Brown): Member for Light, I again remind you of the standing orders.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO: With those comments, I certainly support the receipt and the adoption of the report of Estimates Committee A.

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Brown): Are there any further contributions? The member for Giles wishes to stand.

Mr HUGHES (Giles) (12:59): I think I am left with no choice but to speak. Who knew that it was a competition? I was not chairing all the sessions because of some circumstances beyond my control, and I can say that maybe that is why we had the lower numbers, but that is not the case. I seek leave to continue my remarks.

Leave granted; debate adjourned.

Sitting suspended from 13:00 to 14:00.