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House of Assembly - Fifty-Fourth Parliament, First Session (54-1)
2018-06-19 Daily Xml
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Grievance Debate

Premier and Cabinet Department

Mr KOUTSANTONIS (West Torrens) (15:17): Yesterday, there was some very disturbing evidence given at the Budget and Finance Committee of the Legislative Council. It is clearly apparent now that the Premier, or his office, played some role in influencing or attempting to influence public sector employees to transfer public sector—

The Hon. S.K. Knoll interjecting:

Mr KOUTSANTONIS: I am saying it right now. It seems to be bothering them quite a deal.

Ms COOK: Point of order: the member for Schubert, on his way out the door, called the member for West Torrens a name. He should be made to come forward and explain himself.

The SPEAKER: I will listen to the Hansard. I did not hear the member for Schubert, but I will ask him.

An honourable member: He said 'coward' as he was running out the door.

The SPEAKER: 'Coward' is unparliamentary. If he did say 'coward', that has been held to be an unparliamentary word and I will ask the minister to withdraw it. I will allow the member for West Torrens another 30 seconds.

Mr KOUTSANTONIS: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It seems to me that this has rattled the government for some reason: the hostility, the faux laughter and the animosity about asking these questions. There is an old saying in politics: the mistakes governments make, they make early.

There is a reason why we have an independent Public Service. The reason we have independence in our Public Service is so they can give frank and fearless advice to the government of the day. When the then Liberal candidate for the seat of Bright worked in the Cabinet Office, there was no political interference from the former government to have that person removed.

We did not raise questions of impartiality. We did not raise questions about whether that person could do their job, because that is not the role of executive government: that is the role of chief executives. If there is any evidence of any minister or any staff member being involved in or in any way attempting to influence a senior executive or public sector employee to move a public servant at their detriment, that is corruption.

The Hon. T.J. Whetstone interjecting:

Mr KOUTSANTONIS: The minister laughs, scoffs, at the term 'corruption'. If any public sector employee is moved to their detriment without the authority under the Public Sector Act, it is an act of corruption. It will be interesting to see what occurs in the upper house with the select committee when we get to question staffers and speak to people who were in meetings about what it means to have trust and confidence in staff members, what it means to have trust and confidence in the independent Public Service.

What does it mean if a minister present in that meeting says, 'Who are these people in this Cabinet Office? Did they work for Labor MPs? Have they ever expressed a political opinion?' Miraculously, these people are then moved not only out of the Cabinet Office but out of the Department of the Premier and Cabinet. If there has been any political interference in this, I think there would be some very serious questions to ask. The Ministerial Code of Conduct is very clear. Section 8 states:

Ministers must disregard the political and other personal interests of career public servants unless those interests pose a conflict of interests or give rise to a breach of established conventions of Public Service neutrality.

Given that it was a former Liberal candidate in our Cabinet Office, it is hard to say that moving someone out of Cabinet Office does not breach that standard. I note the answers I have received from the Premier where he said, 'No, no, there were no questions. There was absolutely no issue raised about trust or lack of confidence in public servants.' Ms Ambler was asked in the Budget and Finance Committee about this. She made it very clear that indeed the Premier did raise these questions. She said:

The Premier asked whether there were people who were in the former premier’s office who had come into Cabinet Office. It was a very short discussion about the impartiality of the Cabinet Office.

Who was at that meeting? The Treasurer, the Premier's Chief of Staff, the Premier's chief economic adviser and the Premier and one public servant. She spoke up. She answered the questions honestly to the Budget and Finance Committee. We will find out where this goes. We will find out what we uncover. We will find out what was said, by whom and when, why people were transferred out of the Cabinet Office, why they were moved out of DPC and why some of them have left the public sector altogether.

If there has been any political interference in the movement of those public servants, I imagine there will be others who wish to inquire into that, others who have coercive powers to ask ministers and staffers questions about what they did and when. Members might scoff and think it is funny, but the independence of our Public Service is the most important thing we must protect for good government.

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