Defence SA, $19,179,000

Membership:

Mr Pederick substituted for Mr Telfer.

Mr Basham substituted for Mr Patterson.

Minister:

Hon. A. Koutsantonis, Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Minister for Energy and Mining.

Departmental Advisers:

Ms C. Bohan, Director, Veterans SA, Defence SA.

Mr P. Murdock, Director, Financial and Procurement Services, Veterans SA, Defence SA.

The CHAIR: Welcome. The portfolio is Veterans SA. The minister appearing is the minister acting for the Minister for Veterans Affairs. I declare the proposed payments open for examination and call on the acting minister if he wishes to make an opening statement.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: No, but I will introduce Chantelle Bohan, Director, Veterans SA, Defence SA, and to my right, Peter Murdock, Director, Financial and Procurement Services.

The CHAIR: Lead speaker for the opposition, do you have an opening statement or is it straight to questions?

Mr PEDERICK: I have a brief opening statement. I would like to acknowledge all our veterans and their families for their service and our thoughts are with Minister Brock in this time of his health needs. I will hand to the member for Finniss to read the omnibus questions.

Mr BASHAM: The omnibus questions are:

1. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, how many executive appointments have been made since 1 July 2022 and what is the annual salary and total employment cost for each position?

2. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, how many executive positions have been abolished since 1 July 2022 and what was the annual salary and total employment cost for each position?

3. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, what has been the total cost of executive position terminations since 1 July 2022?

4. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, will the minister provide a breakdown of expenditure on consultants and contractors with a total estimated cost above $10,000 engaged since 1 July 2022, listing the name of the consultant, contractor or service supplier, the method of appointment, the reason for the engagement and the estimated total cost of the work?

5. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, will the minister provide an estimate of the total cost to be incurred in 2023-24 for consultants and contractors and, for each case in which a consultant or contractor has already been engaged at a total estimated cost above $10,000, the name of the consultant or contractor, the method of appointment, the reason for the engagement and the total estimated cost?

6. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, will the minister advise whether it met the 1.7 per cent efficiency dividend for 2022-23 to which the government committed and, if so, how was the saving achieved?

7. For each department or agency reporting to the minister, how many surplus employees are there in June 2023, and for each surplus employee what is the title or classification of the position and the total annual employment cost?

8. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, what is the number of executive staff to be cut to meet the government's commitment to reduce spending on the employment of executive staff and, for each position to be cut, its classification, total remuneration cost and the date by which the position will be cut?

9. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

What savings targets have been set for 2023-24 and each year of the forward estimates; and

What is the estimated FTE impact of these measures?

10. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, will the minister advise what share it is receiving of the $1.5 billion the government proposes to use over four years of uncommitted capital reserves held in the budget at the time it took office and the purpose for which this funding is being used in each case?

11. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

What was the actual FTE count at June 2023 and what is the projected actual FTE count for the end of each year of the forward estimates;

What is the budgeted total employment cost for each year of the forward estimates; and

How many targeted voluntary separation packages are estimated to be required to meet budget targets over the forward estimates and what is their estimated cost?

12. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, how much is budgeted to be spent on goods and services for 2023-24 and for each year of the forward estimates?

13. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, how many FTEs are budgeted to provide communication and promotion activities in 2023-24 and each year of the forward estimates and what is their estimated employment cost?

14. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, what is the total budgeted cost of government-paid advertising, including campaigns, across all mediums in 2023-24?

15. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, please provide for each individual investing expenditure project administered, the name, total estimated expenditure, actual expenditure incurred to June 2023 and budgeted expenditure for 2023-24, 2024-25 and 2025-26?

16. For each grant program or fund the minister is responsible for, please provide the following information for the 2023-24, 2024-25 and 2025-26 financial years:

Name of the program or fund;

The purpose of the program or fund;

Budgeted payments into the program or fund;

Budgeted expenditure from the program or fund; and

Details, including the value and beneficiary, or any commitments already made to be funded from the program or fund.

17. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

Is the agency confident that you will meet your expenditure targets in 2023-24;

Have any budget decisions been made between the delivery of the budget on 15 June 2023 and today that might impact on the numbers presented in the budget papers which we are examining today; and

Are you expecting any reallocations across your agency's budget lines during 2023-24, if so, what would be the nature of this reallocation?

18. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

What South Australian businesses will be used in procurement for your agency in 2023-24;

What percentage of total procurement spend for your agency does this represent; and

How does this compare to last year?

19. What protocols and monitoring systems has the department implemented to ensure that the productivity, efficiency and quality of service delivery is maintained while employees work from home?

20. What percentage of your department's budget has been allocated for the management of remote work infrastructure, including digital tools, cybersecurity and support services, and how does this compare with previous years?

21. How many procurements have been undertaken by the department this FY, how many have been awarded to interstate businesses, and how many of those were signed off by the chief executive?

22. How many contractor invoices were paid by the department directly this FY? How many and what percentage were paid within 15 days, and how many and what percentage were paid outside of 15 days?

23. How many and what percentage of staff who undertake procurement activities have undertaken training on participation policies and local industry participants this FY?

Mr PEDERICK: My question goes to Budget Paper 5, page 24, Pathway of Honour upgrade. Is there going to be a consultation process for the redesign and upgrade of the Pathway of Honour?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have from the agency is that this is an Adelaide City Council owned asset. They are receiving a grant from the South Australian government. I would expect them to consult on it with veterans groups. I am sure that would be the expectation of the minister, if he were here. I am sure that is probably the expectation of the department. I see no reason why or anything that would say the Adelaide City Council would not consult with veterans groups and defence on the nature of the changes to any memorial.

Mr PEDERICK: Are you able to expand on what the redesign and upgrade will involve?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will take that on notice and get back to you.

Mr PEDERICK: When do you anticipate work on the redesign and upgrade will start?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: That is a matter for the Adelaide City Council.

Mr PEDERICK: Will there be any disruption to traffic on either Kintore Avenue or King William Road when works commence?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: In my experience, whenever there is any work done anywhere in the CBD, the first casualty is traffic.

Mr PEDERICK: How many jobs is this project likely to create?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will have to ask Adelaide City Council. I will refer you to them.

Mr PEDERICK: Same page, 'Veterans community security framework'. When will work on the security framework commence?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised there has been $2.1 million in funding allocation across the forward estimates to veterans affairs in the budget. I understand the community security framework consists of a comprehensive outreach program, veterans and family growth support program. The framework, I am advised, seeks to improve the wellbeing of the veteran community by reducing social isolation and developing community connections through veteran and partner employment, family support and transition support activities.

The program will be designed to ensure that the current and future veteran communities are consulted and acknowledged, listened to, supported and given the opportunity to provide feedback and input into the design of the programs that affect them. We remain committed to continue to focus on the issues faced by veterans and their families. I am advised that Veterans SA will continue working towards achieving the portfolio's aims and will be informed by the best way of empowering local communities and promoting inclusion, importantly, honouring service and data informed policy best practice.

Mr PEDERICK: But when specifically will work on that security framework commence, minister?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that the program will be delivered in the third quarter of this year.

Mr PEDERICK: This financial year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes.

Mr PEDERICK: Will any other departments or agencies be involved with the rollout of the security framework?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I imagine they would be. We would want a whole-of-government approach to this, but the primary deliverer would be Veterans SA, but I will get back to you on that.

Mr PEDERICK: The veterans community security framework will facilitate targeted opportunities and support to the veteran community, as you have outlined. Can you provide more detail on the opportunities and support that will be provided to the veteran community under this program?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I think it is best I give you a detailed answer on notice. Obviously, I am not the minister.

Mr PEDERICK: No, I acknowledge that.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I do not want to dishonour any of the veterans, so I will give you a detailed answer.

Mr PEDERICK: What specific outreach programs will support reducing social isolation and provide employment opportunities for veterans and their partners?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have is that is still being developed.

Mr PEDERICK: Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 157, key agency outputs, dot point 9. How is the minister engaging with veterans and their families to connect them with the right services and programs when they need them most?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: If I know Minister Brock, it would be on a personal basis, but given I am not Minister Brock, I will get a detailed answer from the department and forward that to you. I would imagine it is advocacy and the usual connections that veterans take advantage of. There would be forums conducted and there would be outreach through existing networks.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer you to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, key agency outputs, page 158, dot point 1 on this page. What are the main South Australian government agencies that Defence SA works with to provide support to ex-service organisations and the veteran community?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised, firstly, it is Veterans SA, not Defence SA, so I think you might have misspoken there.

Mr PEDERICK: Veterans under Defence, yes.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Sorry. It would be the office of the public sector, it would be Office for Women, the Department for Education, and any other relevant agency within state government that they feel that they need to as they are developing any policies and delivering any service.

Mr PEDERICK: In regard to dot point 2, what is the minister doing to empower the South Australian community to honour service personnel and the experience of families who support them?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: For the first time ever, the South Australian government has applied over the forward estimates a continuous funding stream to promote this endeavour. Obviously, this is a key responsibility of the commonwealth government as well. We do all we can to promote veterans' ongoing support and honour their service and we have a funding stream in place for the first time to deliver these services, which has been developed by the office of Veterans SA.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer to dot point 3. What are the key platforms used to promote the valuable and impactful contributions made by veterans and their families to the South Australian community?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: We promote using all forms of media, social media and we have a dedicated website. Obviously, there are investments in memorials. I know that I have seen all members in this house attend services and put their recognition of veterans' services at local memorials. I know that the member for Adelaide has probably one of the most significant war memorials in the state at the North Terrace National War Memorial, which conducts services regularly. I think it is a combined effort by all of us, but the department specifically uses social media, the internet, online websites and any other form of media that they can.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer you to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, Program 3: Veterans SA, page 165, description/objective, the first paragraph. How many South Australians are currently serving in our defence forces both full-time or as reservists?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am not sure the commonwealth government gives us those details, and I am not sure I can even take that on notice.

Mr PEDERICK: What is the size of the veteran community in South Australia?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The most recent ABS Census, which includes veterans, their families and their dependants, puts that number at about 100,000.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer you to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, Program 3: Veterans SA, page 165, description/objective, the second paragraph. How many ex-service organisations are there in South Australia and how many do Veterans SA work with?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that there are over 300 and that Veterans SA, as you would imagine, would have relationships with as many of them as they possibly can, which is nearly all of them.

Mr PEDERICK: On the same budget line, in the last paragraph, can you list the main matters of concern that have been expressed by the ex-service community in South Australia?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is a pretty heart-wrenching list: employment, homelessness, family support, carer support and incarceration.

Mr PEDERICK: Yes, it is tough.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is very tough, especially given what these people do for us in our name.

Mr PEDERICK: What is the latest advice you have received from the Veterans' Advisory Council in relation to the veteran wellbeing centre proposed for northern Adelaide?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I do not have any information at hand about that, so what I will do is try to get you a detailed answer. I think it is commonwealth government investment, but I will get back to you with a more detailed answer.

Mr PEDERICK: Regarding Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 165, highlights 2022-23, dot point 1, how many surveys were sent out and how many forums were held during the 2022-23 year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised there were three forums and two surveys.

Mr PEDERICK: The surveys were sent out to all veterans, I am assuming.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: We have a database of veterans whom we know about. They were contacted. The respective Australian Defence Force bases in South Australia were also notified.

Mr PEDERICK: How many people attended the forums that were held?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will get that for you.

Mr PEDERICK: What were the main initiatives and recommendations that came from the forums and surveys?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I think I can tell from the nature of the advice I am receiving that it pretty much matches the list I read out earlier: support for families, support for employment, support for spouses, health care, carer support, incarceration support, training—the usual cohort of issues.

Mr PEDERICK: Regarding dot point 2 under highlights 2022-23, it was the first year in which a second round was offered for the ANZAC Day Commemoration Fund since it was established in 2008. Was the reason for a second round due to a lack of uptake in the first round, or was there another reason?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have is that it was due to a lack of uptake.

Mr PEDERICK: In regard to that, are Veterans SA making sure that RSLs are aware of what is available through that fund?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer to dot point 2 on the same budget line. How many applications were received in the first round of the ANZAC Day Commemoration Fund?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: We will take that on notice.

Mr PEDERICK: How many applications were received in the second round of the ANZAC Day Commemoration Fund?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I think I will take that on notice as well.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer to dot point 3. How many of the 22 grants were allocated under the Veterans SA Capacity Building Grant Fund and how many were allocated under the Veterans SA Commemorative Services Grant Fund?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: We do not have the numbers here.

Mr PEDERICK: I am assuming this question might not work, but I will throw it in there. Can you provide a list of the successful recipients of those 22 grants?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I only have the total numbers allocated, not the individual grants and the number of people who were awarded grants.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer to dot point 4. How many regional events did Veterans SA attend throughout 2022-23 as part of its community outreach and engagement?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I understand there were three field days that they attended: Lucindale, the Riverland and Paskeville.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer to highlights, 2022-23, dot point 5. Can the minister outline what new policies or program proposals were made with collaboration across state government agencies in 2022-23?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that we have received multiple feedback from representatives within the veteran community over the years regarding the impacts of especially their parents' military service on their children's educational outcomes. In response to these concerns raised by the community, the department approached the Department for Education to highlight the importance of identifying military and veteran children within the public system.

Veterans SA advocated for the introduction of a tick box in the school enrolment form to identify children with a parent or foster carer who is in the ADF. The tick box initiative is currently under development and will be rolled out as of next year. This will help schools better respond to the unique scenarios and deliver services. I think it is a positive step. The department has done an exceptional job in my opinion, from what I am reading here, to make sure there is no educational disadvantage visited upon the families of veterans or those serving in the ADF.

This is a whole-of-government initiative, obviously, with concessional offerings being led by Human Services. Veterans SA provided detailed analysis of the current concessions available to veterans and will be an active contributor to that working group as we assess how those concessions are rolled out. They will work with the Office for Women and, of course, again education through TAFE. One of their major concerns we saw earlier was training and unemployment. Skills are a big issue.

There was also domestic, family and sexual violence, which are issues in some families within the veteran community. We have approached the Office for Women to collaborate on the development of some state-based strategies to respond. There is a network of community-based DFSV agencies. They are working with them to make sure that family members are not isolated and can reach out and get services.

All of this has resulted in the development of three military veterans-specific fact sheets covering recognised domestic, family and sexual violence and how a third party is able to respond to assist someone experiencing domestic or family violence or sexual violence. They have been distributed to the relevant military and veterans-specific organisations, and they are being promoted within the broader community-based DFSV network later this year. TAFE SA, as a result of the advocacy of the agency, has launched the new veterans program, which aims to provide an improved pathway for veterans into vocational education. The department has signed an MOU to support this program. It is very good work by the agency.

Mr PEDERICK: I certainly think the education opportunity is a very good one to promote, noting how many service men and women and their families move around at very short notice sometimes. In line with veterans' concession entitlements and cards, is there any work done by the state to streamline and assimilate the cards with the different benefits from across other states? It does create problems with veterans moving into South Australia from other states. I am wondering if there has been any work. I know it is based under a commonwealth program, but different states have different concessions related to veterans.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Are you talking about state-based concessions?

Mr PEDERICK: Yes.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is obviously a very important issue for veterans. I think it is fair to say that most concessions in our state—excluding this year, which has the largest concessions we have ever offered, which are electricity based—are for the benefit of seniors and pension card holders. Veterans SA, in obtaining information from the veterans community, has provided feedback to Human Services for a whole-of-government approach to a reference group on concessions.

The department is confident that the review of the concessions will consider, where it is appropriate, providing concessions to veterans of all ages and their families. Regarding the differences across jurisdictions, this matter is on the commonwealth's agenda for its bilateral discussions through ministerial councils, and there is a committee that the Director of Veterans SA sits on. I think it is fair to say, from the advice I have here, that it is an ongoing challenge given the nature of every individual state having a different approach.

Mr PEDERICK: Thank you, that is a fulsome answer. I refer to highlights 2022-23 again, dot point 6. What involvement did Veterans SA have with the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide in the 2022-23 year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Obviously, a royal commission was announced by former Prime Minister Scott Morrison examining systemic issues and risk factors for past deaths and suicide in the ADF. It includes all aspects of service within the ADF and includes those transitioning, the availability and quality of health and support services, pre-service, post-service issues for members, veterans, family in the context of family breakdowns, as well as housing, homelessness and employment issues for members and veterans. The royal commission has held nine block hearings across Australia; hearings in Adelaide are due to start on 17 July.

The interim report has made 13 recommendations that require urgent attention to focus on areas including legislative reform, and DVA claim there is a backlog and a protection to engage with the commission. We provided a voluntary submission to the royal commission, following a cabinet endorsement of that submission. It was prepared to inform the commission of the services presently available to the current and former members of the ADF and their families in South Australia.

The department has been working very closely, I am advised, with the Attorney-General's Department to have a royal commission response unit embedded within them. The agency has provided data and relevant information that contributed to the development of the South Australian government voluntary submission. Veterans SA has been working with the Attorney-General's Department to put in a submission, giving them data to populate that submission. Cabinet endorsed that in May, and it was lodged with the commission last month.

I am advised that the government is committed to implement accepted recommendations and improve strategies and policies to better support the veteran community and their families, in addition to effective suicide prevention measures. Again, for those who are listening to this estimates hearing, the royal commission is appearing in Adelaide to take submissions on 17 July 2023.

Mr PEDERICK: Thank you, minister, for that fulsome answer—it is a very important issue. I refer to page 165, targets 2023-24, dot point 1. Can the minister explain how the Veterans SA career and business mentoring program works and advise us on successful outcomes?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that the Veterans SA career and business mentoring program was a successful pilot by the previous government in 2021, and the program is running this year between June and November. The purpose, as you might be aware, is to connect members of the veterans' community with experienced South Australian business leaders and provide guidance and support as mentors to help them achieve in their professional lives.

Participants in the 2021 program that the previous government held experienced a lot of positive outcomes, including gaining meaningful employment, scholarships and grant successes. They expanded their professional networks and had increased confidence and an improved understanding of self-worth.

In 2023 (this year), the eligibility criteria for the mentee participants was expanded to include any person who is or who has served in the ADF, as well as their partners. This year, there were two separate programs, with different objectives and outcomes being offered. There is a career in skills development and business entrepreneurship. The advice I have is that the program will be facilitated by a South Australian-based strategy and business coach. Her name is Christine Molitor from Be Sustained. The funding of the program was approved in the 2022-23 financial year.

Mr PEDERICK: You just mentioned the funding. What is the funding that is committed to running this very worthwhile program?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised it is $80,000.

Mr PEDERICK: Do you anticipate the Veterans SA career and business mentoring program will be offered on an ongoing basis?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have from the agency is that they will continue to consult. It might not continue in its current form, it might continue to evolve, but there will be a program of some form, given the success of the 2021 pilot. I suppose you could say you have discovered something that no-one else has: a great legacy of the former Marshall government.

Mr PEDERICK: The option is whether it is this direct program or a new program being developed. Is there a likelihood that it might be offered on a full-time basis, across the full 12 months of every year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have is that, firstly, it depends on funding, and, secondly, veteran community needs are not static, they evolve, so things change. If you ask me, as the acting minister, I think it is a bloody good program.

Mr PEDERICK: Absolutely. Thank you.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: You are welcome.

Mr PEDERICK: I refer to dot point 2. Can you explain what the regional and metropolitan outreach program will involve?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Bear with me here because I am new to this.

Mr PEDERICK: No, that is fine.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The feedback is what is leading the way we are conducting the outreach programs. If I am right, through the surveying we have done, we know where our regional veterans are, so we are conducting our attendance in the Riverland with field days in Barmera in September 2022. The program has already commenced and is running until 30 June, end of this financial year, in 2024. Veterans SA will continue to offer grant funding for selected ex-service organisations to participate in the outreach program. It is a program that can help the member-based communities to better work with key service providers.

The regional outreach program will cover the South-East, Riverland, Adelaide Hills, Yorke and Eyre peninsulas, as well as the Barossa. These areas have been chosen on the basis of veteran population data obtained by the Census. Veterans SA will continue to be an active participant in the ADF transition seminars and defence member welcome days. Participation at these events will enable ongoing communication and learning about what is important to defence members and their families as they settle into life.

There is new funding across the forward estimates for the outreach programs and the veterans community will have an opportunity to have input into the development of programs and projects that impact them. That is a clumsy way of me giving you Veterans SA's sophisticated answer that they prepared for me, but if you like I can get something for you more holistically. This is all published on a website.

Mr PEDERICK: I will go to page 166, program summary—income, expenses and FTEs. Can you outline the job titles and roles of the 4½ FTE staff employed with Veterans SA and are any staff currently working from home?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: As a principle, I do not have a problem with any public servant working from home. I think it is a good initiative. It is good family life, work balance. Obviously, I think it is also important that teams get together to talk about progress and learn to mentor each other. I am sure there are a number of people working from home and that is a good thing. I am not into demonising that type of behaviour. I think it is actually quite good.

As for your other question, there is a director, a deputy director, a comms and strategic officer, a grants administration officer and a family and employment officer.

The CHAIR: With the time allotted having expired, I declare the examination of the portfolio of Veterans SA completed and the examination of proposed payments for Defence SA. I would like to thank all the members for their contributions and attendance over the last five days. I would like to thank the minister for stepping in at the last minute and I would especially like to thank the officers for all the work they do leading up to estimates.

Last but not least, I would like to thank security, who have been sitting up there for hours and hours—I hope you had a good book—and the parliamentary officers who kept me on the straight and narrow through this whole process. Once I was an endurance runner, but thanks to estimates I am now an endurance sitter. With those few words, I lay before the committee a draft report for Estimates Committee B.

Mrs PEARCE: I move:

That the draft report be the report of the committee.

Motion carried.

At 15:47 the committee concluded.