Department for Infrastructure and Transport, $1,107,742,000

Administered Items for the Department for Infrastructure and Transport, $7,863,000

Membership:

Mr McBride substituted for Mr Whetstone.

Mrs Pearce substituted for S.E. Andrews.

Ms Hood substituted for Ms Hutchesson.

Ms Wortley substituted for Ms Savvas.

Minister:

Hon. A. Koutsantonis, Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Minister for Energy and Mining.

Departmental Advisers:

Mr J. Whelan, Chief Executive, Department for Infrastructure and Transport.

Mr G. Jackson, Executive Director, People and Corporate Services, Department for Infrastructure and Transport.

Ms A. Hart, Director, Office of Local Government, Department for Infrastructure and Transport.

Mr L. Pineda, Manager, Budget and Reporting, Financial and Procurement Services, Department for Infrastructure and Transport.

The CHAIR: Welcome, everybody. Welcome to Minister Koutsantonis, who is taking the place of Minister Brock. We all wish Geoff a very speedy recovery. Hopefully, he is going to be on the mend very soon and back with us.

Welcome to today's hearing for Estimates Committee B. I respectfully acknowledge the traditional owners of this land upon which the committee meets today and pay our respects to them and their cultures, and to the elders both past and present.

The estimates committees are a relatively informal procedure and, as such, there is no need to stand to ask or answer questions. I understand that the minister and the lead speaker for the opposition have agreed on an approximate time for the consideration of proposed payments, which will facilitate a change of departmental advisers. Can the minister and the lead speaker for the opposition confirm that the timetable for today's proceedings previously distributed is accurate?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes.

Mr TELFER: Yes.

The CHAIR: Changes to committee membership will be notified as they occur. Members should ensure the Chair is provided with a completed request to be discharged form. If the minister undertakes to supply information at a later date, it must be submitted to the Clerk Assistant via the Answers to Questions mailbox no later than Friday 8 September 2023.

I propose to allow both the minister and the lead speaker for the opposition to make opening statements of up to 10 minutes each, should they so wish. There will be a flexible approach to giving the call for asking questions. A member who is not on the committee may ask a question at the discretion of the Chair.

All questions are to be directed to the minister, not to the minister's advisers. The minister may refer questions to advisers for a response. Questions must be based on lines of expenditure in the budget papers and must be identifiable or referenced. Members unable to complete their questions during the proceedings may submit them as questions on notice for inclusion in the assembly Notice Paper.

I remind members that the rules of debate in the house apply in the committee. Consistent with the rules of the house, photography by members from the chamber floor is not permitted while the committee is sitting. Ministers and members may not table documents before the committee; however, documents can be supplied to the Chair for distribution.

The incorporation of material in Hansard is permitted on the same basis as applies in the house; that is, it is purely statistical and limited to one page in length. The committee's examinations will be broadcast in the same manner as sittings of the house, through the IPTV system within Parliament House and online via the parliament website.

I now proceed to open the following lines for examination. The portfolios are the Office of Local Government, the Outback Communities Authority and the Local Government Grants Commission. The minister appearing in this case is Minister Koutsantonis, representing the Minister for Local Government. I declare the proposed payments open for examination. I invite the minister to introduce his advisers and, if he so wishes, to make an opening statement.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Thank you, Chair. Minister Brock is unable to be with us today. I am the acting minister until his return. Obviously, I do not have the depth of knowledge that Minister Brock has, but I am ably assisted by my chief executive Jon Whelan, Chief Executive, Department for Infrastructure and Transport and, to my right, Alex Hart, Director, Office of Local Government. Behind me is Graeme Jackson, Executive Director, People and Corporate Services in DIT, and to his left is Luis Pineda, Manager, Budget and Reporting, Financial and Procurement Services. I will forgo any opening statement and look forward to questions.

The CHAIR: Speaker for the opposition, do you have an opening statement or go straight to questions?

Mr TELFER: Only a very brief one. I echo the thoughts of the minister. I know that it is a challenge for the acting minister to step in at short notice to cover this aspect. It is an important aspect, albeit there is not a lot in the description in the budget papers, but it is an area that is a pretty dynamic one, I know from my experience in local government and also in conversations with councillors and mayors and their staff all around the state, so I am looking forward to trying to unpack a little bit about what is happening within the Office of Local Government and the future projects. I will go to page 115, the description of the FTEs, the $1.943 million with the 10 FTEs. Can the minister provide a summary of job title and role for those 10 full-time equivalents?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Page 115 of Budget Paper 4, Volume 3?

Mr TELFER: Budget Paper 4, Volume 3.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: You say 10, the paper has 8.9 here, or am I reading the wrong line?

Mr TELFER: The total at the top, in the ministerial office.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Ministerial workforce?

Mr TELFER: Yes, ministerial office.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I imagine that it is his Chief of Staff, his advisers, his liaison officers, administrative, correspondence officers.

Mr TELFER: You cannot provide a list?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am not the minister, but I will ask Minister Brock—I am pretty sure it is already publicly available, but I will double-check and get back to you.

Mr TELFER: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 3, pages 140-141, which is the substantive aspect of what we are looking at: program 7. Perhaps flick back to page116: the total costs of the Office of Local Government increased from $7.9 million in 2021-22 to $8.6 million in 2022-23 and is budgeted to be $9.9 million in 2023-24. Can the minister explain the near 25 per cent increase in the budget for the Office of Local Government over the last two years?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: If we look to page 141 there is a table heading 'Program summary—income, expenses and FTEs'. In there you will see a dramatic increase in supplies and services. That is through municipal programs being run by the agency to deliver infrastructure.

Mr TELFER: There is a significant decrease in the budget of that line.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The program has been completed and that is the money left over that has been carried over.

Mr TELFER: But the budget as a whole is still increasing, so if those municipal services—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: If you look two lines lower you will see 'Grants and subsidies', the estimated result is $2.9 million and this year's budget is for $8 million.

Mr TELFER: So the explanation about the increase in the approximately $5 million in the grants and subsidies?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes.

Mr TELFER: Can you explain that?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that the increase there is the $5 million—the $2.5 million per year for grants and $2.5 million for work for jetties.

Mr TELFER: So the jetties program, the additional funding, is that amount?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes.

Mr TELFER: So that is going to be run by the Office of Local Government?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: In conjunction with the Department for Infrastructure and Transport, yes.

Mr TELFER: The other $2.5 million, which is the increase in grants, what is the explanation for that amount?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The other $2.5 million?

Mr TELFER: Did you not say there are two lots of $2.5 million, to equate to the $5 million?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes. Then there is the traditional—the allocation of $5 million, and then there is $3 million that has been budgeted for previously, and I assume that is for the municipal services grants.

Mr TELFER: So you are saying the $5 million jetties is the increase, basically?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes.

Mr TELFER: Going to page 140, Program 7: Office of Local Government, the papers note that the minister is responsible for the implementation of local government reforms, one of which includes the advice scheme conducted pursuant to section 122 of the Local Government Act 1999. Was the local government minister, his staff or department involved with ESCOSA in the development of the parameters and scope of the Local Government Advice Scheme?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that the Statutes Amendment (Local Government Review) Act 2021 was introduced by the previous government for the role of ESCOSA to provide advice to local councils on a four-yearly rotational basis in relation to councils' long-term financial plan, infrastructure and assessment management plan, and revenue sources as outlined in the council funding plan.

ESCOSA provided advice to local government, to the first 15 councils, and on 28 February 2023 published that advice on its website, which was generally based on information available to the commission at 15 February 2023. Based on the information provided to ESCOSA by these councils before 30 September 2022, as required by the LG Act 1999, and through other requests and discussions with ESCOSA, they formed their advice.

Minister Brock says he is pleased to see that ESCOSA's advice to the majority of these 15 councils is that they are financially sustainable and these councils can use this advice to give their ratepayers confidence that their council is being managed well.

Mr TELFER: Was the minister, his department or staff involved with the development of the parameters or scope of the process before game underway with ESCOSA?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It was done by the legislation.

Mr TELFER: The legislation sets out the framework, the detail needed to be developed by ESCOSA. Was there engagement with the minister, the department or the minister's staff in the development of that?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: My advice is that ESCOSA followed the legislative parameters and performed their work as required under statute.

Mr TELFER: Under this oversight, the minister can decide which agency is the designated authority to provide that advice. Is the minister aware of any advice provided by the Essential Services Commission of South Australia to a council that has been adopted by a council?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Can you repeat that question.

Mr TELFER: Regarding the advice that has been provided to councils under that scope—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: From ESCOSA?

Mr TELFER: —from ESCOSA, is the minister aware of any advice that has been adopted by a council?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have from the agency is that councils release their business plans in advance of consultation. A lot of them have not made formal live decisions yet and the advice they receive from ESCOSA was incorporated into that business plan that they have released. They are out consulting with their local communities. They will make their own informed democratic decisions about what they adopt and do not adopt and will find out afterwards. The informal advice is that, yes, some councils have adopted some of that advice, but ultimately councils are responsible for their own actions. This is the advice from ESCOSA.

Mr TELFER: Has there been any feedback to the minister or his office or the department from councils on the $40,000 bill for their ESCOSA advice and whether that represents value for money for ratepayers?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The second part of that question is subjective. The first part of that question—

Mr TELFER: No, this is feedback from councils. That is the feedback that has been received by the minister.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: They are out for consultation now. It would be a bit hard for them to know in advance, so I will—

Mr TELFER: Sorry, the advice—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Can I speak or are you just going to speak over me?

Mr TELFER: I am clarifying my question. The advice from ESCOSA—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is not my fault you did not ask it properly the first time. I am going to answer it the way you asked it, so just take it easy for a second.

The CHAIR: Maybe, if we just let the minister finish and then if you want to seek clarification—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is not my fault you do not like the way this is going. If I give you an answer and you do not like it, it is just bad luck. You do not get to re-ask the question. That is just how it is, okay? Good. Because Minister Brock is not here, I will take that on notice and get an answer from him and his office and get back to you.

Mr TELFER: Has the minister or the department or the minister's office done any work on the potential of changing the designated authority responsible for council rates oversight from ESCOSA to another capable authority?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I received from the agency is that there are three more rounds to go and that the minister will not contemplate any changes to that until the first full round of consultations has occurred and the assessments have occurred by ESCOSA. At the end of that, he will make an assessment.

Mr TELFER: Continuing on page 140, local government reform projects, was the local government minister, his staff or department involved with developing any statutory criteria or scope with the Remuneration Tribunal in their work on the banding of council CEO salaries?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Say that again.

Mr TELFER: Was the local government minister, his staff or department involved with developing any statutory criteria or scope with the Remuneration Tribunal in their work on the banding of council CEO salaries?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have is that the previous government made amendments to the Local Government Act that commenced on 20 September 2021 that gave the Remuneration Tribunal the independent authority to set CEO wages and that is what has occurred.

Mr TELFER: I respect that you are acting and doing the best you can with the information you are gathering. Does the minister believe that the criteria used by the Remuneration Tribunal for the banding of council CEOs' salaries appropriately takes into account certain factors such as council size, operating income or expenses, or geographic characteristics?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: This goes back to Minister Brock's view that local government should be autonomous. As part of the changes the previous government made the sector asked for an independent Remuneration Tribunal assessment of the bands. They have come back and done it, and that is the view of the government: we support the bands that they have brought out.

It was a framework set up by the previous government. The work package was done by the tribunal in accordance with the legislative framework the previous government set out, and they have done their work. It is no good setting up an independent committee and then not liking the work that they do. They are independent. They set out the bands. What our views are really are not relevant.

Mr TELFER: You talk about views not really mattering but—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Sorry to interrupt you: further advice is that any member of the public can make a submission to the tribunal, and they will review these bands again in 12 months' time.

Mr TELFER: Will the minister be making a submission on the process?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will check with the office and get back to you.

Mr TELFER: Staying with program 7, it highlights at the bottom of the targets the work that will need to be done with the District Council of Coober Pedy. What budget outlays does the minister expect in 2023-24 to help return the District Council of Coober Pedy to a position of financial sustainability?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have received from the agency is that as you would be aware, the previous government declared the District of Coober Pedy a defaulting council, and the Local Government (Defaulting Council) Amendment Act 2022 extended the council's administration for a maximum period of a further four years, ending at the 2026 periodic council elections.

This reflects the seriousness and complexity of the issues at the council, which have largely arisen as the council delivers both civil services and essential services to the township, including water, wastewater and electricity retail services. I am advised that there have been some improvements in the council's financial management and governance but many issues remain unresolved. The government is committed to finding a solution that will work for Coober Pedy in the long term. The extension of the administration period will provide the time necessary to determine how to find that solution.

In March of this year, the Governor appointed three new administrators for the council. I am advised that they are highly skilled and experienced. They have been appointed to ensure the council's capacity and the capability to necessarily remedy the issues it faces. Mr Geoff Sheridan, a long-time regional council chief executive officer has been appointed as the council's principal administrator. Much like a principal member or mayor of a council, Mr Sheridan will lead the administrative group, chairing meetings and taking on the primary role of engaging with the Coober Pedy community to work together on the challenges faced by the council and the community.

Mr Sheridan is supported by two supporting administrators who will participate in setting the council's strategic direction, and in all decision-making. The supporting administrators are Ms Erika Vickery OAM and Mr John Moyle. Both Ms Vickery and Mr Moyle, I am advised, have long been highly regarded leaders in the local government sector, and they bring extensive and diverse experience to the administrative group.

As a measure of our commitment to resolving these challenges that the council is faced with, the government is providing $150,000 per annum to cover the costs of supporting the administrators and contribute to the cost of the principal administrator. The government is making every effort to put high-quality and well-resourced administration in place to make real and positive changes so that the people of Coober Pedy can once again have an elected member body as soon as possible.

I am advised that the most important matter that must be resolved is the council's financial position and performance, which is the basis of the question the member asked. In particular, the new administrator must address the council's underlying ongoing operating deficit, as the council will not be in a position to address other challenges until this is dealt with. I am advised that the new administrators are meeting this challenge.

The council's draft annual business plan and annual budget for the upcoming financial year were released on 22 June of this year, along with a revised long-term financial plan. These include that the council will achieve a small underlying operating surplus by 30 June 2025. The administrators have had a difficult task. They have had to make a range of very difficult decisions, I am advised, for this to occur. It includes a proposed 20 per cent increase in revenue from general rates, an operational savings of nearly $1 million per annum, and a 30 per cent increase in water service charges to ensure that this service is run on a full cost-recovery basis.

The South Australian government and the Local Government Finance Authority are working closely with the council as it implements this plan for financial sustainability, which will include supporting the council in managing any financial issues that may arise in the coming financial year. There have been some senior representatives from the South Australian government agencies, including agencies responsible for, or having an interest in, water and electricity services. They are also examining options for the future delivery and governance of these essential services in Coober Pedy.

Minister Brock, I am advised, expects that the change in administrators will result in a new approach to the future of the delivery of essential services in Coober Pedy. Hopefully that can be resolved. The government Group has met, I am advised, with the new administrators and the council's chief executive officer, Mr David Kelly, to determine how the council can take the most constructive approach to working with the government to develop realistic options for the delivery of these services.

The minister was planning on visiting Coober Pedy—he has visited regularly, I understand—and he continues his discussions with the people of Coober Pedy. Given that his condition means that he will be out of action for potentially four weeks, I suspect they will be on hold. I will make contact with the administrators in the interim and ask the agency to do a follow-up but, from the advice I have received, I think we are beginning to see some green shoots, but I do not underestimate the impact on the local community of seeing $1 million worth of savings and a 20 per cent increase in revenues. That would be a dramatic impost on that local community and, in a desert, full cost recovery for water could be very, very challenging. I will get a full briefing from the agency post this estimates hearing and get a better understanding of exactly what is occurring.

Mr TELFER: Is it envisioned that there will need to be a significant state government financial contribution towards the Coober Pedy water scheme in the future?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I do not know. From memory, I understand it is not a very efficient system. There are a number of concerns about the adequacy of the infrastructure that is in place, so I will take a look at it and have further discussions with the agency.

Mr TELFER: How many years is the $150,000 per annum in place for?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised another 2½ years.

Mr TELFER: Is the Coober Pedy task force still in place?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised it is.

Mr TELFER: How many times has the Coober Pedy task force met?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will get some advice and get back to you on that.

Mr TELFER: Who is on the Coober Pedy task force?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The Department of the Premier and Cabinet, the Department of Treasury and Finance, the Department for Environment and Water, the Department for Energy and Mining and the Department for Infrastructure and Transport.

Mr TELFER: Is there a representative of the council involved in that as well or is this purely a state government task force?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is a state government task force, so it is not a council task force. It is an internal working group, but I am advised that the administrator and the CE of the council attend regularly.

Mr TELFER: Continuing on page 140, one of the targets within the office for the next financial year is to undertake a review of the 2022 local government periodic elections and consider legislative reforms to improve participation in local government and local government elections, including the introduction of the new Community Engagement Charter. Who is doing the local government election review?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised the Office of Local Government will conduct a review. One of the key submissions that they will consider is obviously the statutory review done by the Electoral Commissioner at the completion of the 2022 periodic elections. He may make recommendations. They will be considered by the agency as well, and then the minister will consider those and make recommendations and decisions on how to go forward post that assessment.

Mr TELFER: What is the scope of the local government election review being undertaken by the OLG?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I would refer you back to the budget papers and look at the target. It is to improve participation in local government and local government elections. People like you get elected on what, 20 per cent of voter turnout?

Mr TELFER: No, it is much higher than that in regional South Australia.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: What was it in Tumby Bay? We can go back and check.

Mr TELFER: It was about three-quarters, I think, from memory.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Seventy-five per cent?

Mr TELFER: Yes.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: That is great.

Mr TELFER: Certainly over two-thirds. Is there an investigation or review of whether the Electoral Commission appropriately fulfilled its legislative obligations within the appropriate time frames on the local government elections?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: That is a matter for the parliament, so if the parliament is unsatisfied with the Electoral Commissioner and the way he has conducted himself, parliament is free to investigate.

Mr TELFER: So that is not going to be incorporated in any part of the local government election review?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: He will publish a report; he has not published his report yet.

Mr TELFER: That is not going to be included in any part of the OLG's local government election review?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am not the Minister for Local Government, but the idea that it would be the department's role to investigate an independent statutory officer would be grossly inappropriate, so, no, it is not the role of the agency to investigate the Electoral Commissioner. The Electoral Commissioner is an independent statutory officer, one of the most important in the state. If there is an issue with the way he has conducted himself, he will issue a report, the parliament will consider those reports in both houses, and then the parliament may wish or choose to act. It could refer it to a select committee or standing committee, and the minister may do that.

I have not seen any evidence of anything that would raise my concerns as the acting minister. I will get a briefing from the agency after this estimates committee, but in my experience the Electoral Commissioner is doing an exceptional job.

Mr TELFER: Has the minister received a briefing from the Electoral Commission about the ongoing investigations into specific allegations of electoral fraud arising from the local government elections?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Are you talking about a specific case?

Mr TELFER: There are a number of different allegations, which I believe the Electoral Commissioner is investigating. I am wondering whether the minister has had a briefing on what stage those investigations are at.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: If there are investigations, they would be done independently, or they would go to the Court of Disputed Returns, which is independent of government. Government does not interfere with those. I am assuming you are talking about Alex Hyde?

Mr TELFER: No, not just that one. I think that one is with the Court of Disputed Returns. There are other investigations that have been reported. I was wondering if the minister has been—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I have not, no. If the Electoral Commissioner is doing any investigations, he will investigate and make recommendations as he sees fit.

Mr TELFER: Very good. Continuing on page 140 in regard to the Outback Communities Authority, I note highlights 2022-23, dot point 2 states that the Office of Local Government 'progressed the Outback Futures Project to determine future service and governance provision in outback communities'. I note that line was continued from the previous budget, with all the following words the same. Can I get an update on what has progressed with the Outback Futures Project to determine future service and governance provision in outback communities in the last financial year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that as a result of the review, funding for the outback communities has increased from the proposed $760,000 per annum. I understand the previous government wanted to introduce a levy on outback communities to help raise that. That levy, I understand, is not in place. The South Australian government has increased funding to $2.24 million per annum, without the Liberals' levy.

Mr TELFER: In Budget Paper 1 where it refers to 'abolish the outback levy, $3.7 million over five years', that levy was never in place?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It did not collect any money but it was in place.

Mr TELFER: So it is abolishing a levy that—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: That you introduced.

Mr TELFER: —has not been instigated.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is abolishing a levy you took to the election as something you wanted to impose on outback communities. What the Labor government has done is reject that, as well as a number of other measures, to help outback communities and regional communities. We have also increased funding to $2.24 million per annum. I understand the report was provided in December 2021 and the previous government released that report publicly in January 2022 just before the election.

Mr TELFER: So the $2.2 million per annum is up from what amount?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Seven hundred and forty thousand dollars.

Mr TELFER: That is the increase or that is what it is up from?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Up from.

Mr TELFER: I am just trying to get the numbers to correspond in my mind, minister. I do note the $3 million over four years to support the Outback Communities Authority. My understanding of the proposal about the instigation of an outback levy was a fifty-fifty contribution from the previous government. As you point out, the equivalent that is raised from a potential outback levy would be the amount that is put into cash into the OCA, so the increase of $1.5 million per annum, but within the budget paper it is $3 million over four years.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I think you have page 58 in front of you of the Budget Measures Statement?

Mr TELFER: Yes.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I can tell you have been reading that document a lot. On page 58 you will see 'Outback Communities Authority, Outback Futures, Budget implications'. If you start from the 2023-24 budget, you will see the $740,000 that was going to be collected by the levy—put in by the budget, rather than the levy—and an additional $760,000, which gives you $1.5 million per annum.

Mr TELFER: So the $760,000 is the additional. The $740,000 is what?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is also additional because we are not using a levy to raise the money.

Mr TELFER: So the expectation, if there was a levy instigated, was there was going to be an equivalent amount contributed by the state government. Did that equivalent amount not get contributed because the outback levy did not get instigated?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The equivalent amount was contributed.

Mr TELFER: Previously?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: No, now. Your plan was to raise $740,000 off outback communities and your plan was then to match that money with a government contribution. My advice is what we have done is to put that money into the fund, without using the levy, and matched it.

Mr TELFER: So the matching funding from the previous budgets, did any of that get allocated to outback communities, despite there not being money raised from the outback levy?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The table I have referred you to is in the new measures statement. The $2.2 million per annum takes into account a $740,000 baseline, which we have been funding, and it takes into account a levy that would have collected another $740,000, which we have put in without collecting the levy, plus an additional $760,000 to take it to $2.2 million per annum. If you look at the Budget Measures Statement—Budget Paper 5, I think it is—

Mr TELFER: Yes—$2.2 million.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: —you will see a $760,000 baseline, and in the budget measures you will see that the two new measures we have put in place are that in lieu of the levy we have put in $740,000 and the policy of matching the levy funding has also been honoured.

Mr TELFER: How much of the policy of matching the funding cache, which would have contributed to the OCA budget, was made available in the previous financial year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Nothing was collected.

Mr TELFER: No, not the amount that was collected because the levy has never been in place: the amount equivalent that the state government said they would contribute. Did any of that $740,000, $750,000 or $760,000—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will take that on advice and get back to you.

Mr TELFER: Thank you. It takes a bit to unpack.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is $1.5 million of extra money without a levy.

Mr TELFER: My understanding was there was funding from that other component, which went into OCA. I will wait for the advice.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Either way, no levy has been charged.

Mr TELFER: Correct.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: And they got more money.

Mr TELFER: No levy has been charged—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: And they got more money.

Mr TELFER: —because it had not been charged already.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Yes, because you lost the election.

Mr TELFER: No, because they are an independent statutory body who decide which levies they put onto their members rather than the government imposing.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: But your government made a policy decision to impose a levy and you would have matched it, so there would not be this extra money if you had been elected.

Mr TELFER: Does the OCA still support further consideration of an outback levy as per their recommendations within the Outback Futures Report?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: There is no longer a requirement from the South Australian government to collect a levy. There has been a policy change. There has been a change of government. Because the former government was defeated, that policy change means that there is no requirement to collect a levy because they are being substituted with the money anyway.

Mr TELFER: Within the Outback Futures Report, the recommendation from the OCA was that consideration be given to a levy. Is that still the position of the OCA?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: You would have to ask them.

Mr TELFER: I am asking the office it sits under.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will say this again: the reason the Outback Communities Authority contemplated a levy was that the previous government offered them matching funding on what they collect. Shake your head as much as you like; that was the arrangement you had in place.

Mr TELFER: That is not right.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: It is not right? So there was no arrangement in place where the previous government would give them matching funding for whatever they raised, despite your preamble to this question? Should we get the Hansard out and show what you just said to me and to the house? You said to the house there was a previous arrangement in place for the OCA to raise a levy to be matched by the state government, and when I just put that to you now, you said, 'No, that's not right.'

Mr TELFER: No. The Outback Futures Report, which was given to the minister, made a recommendation for consideration to be given to a levy. I asked is that still the position—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: You are missing the fact that this says 'budget measures'. Every year, the government has a budget, and in that budget measure—

Mr TELFER: I am asking about—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Do not interrupt me. In the budget measure, I have said—

Mr TELFER: —the policy positions of the OCA.

The CHAIR: Let the minister finish, and then you can have your go.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: You can go back to defending your policy of having a levy on outback communities.

Mr TELFER: I am defending the OCA.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: We have assumed a level of funding that is a baseline. We have given them the money they would have collected with the levy out of the budget and we have given them extra money. There is no need for them now to collect the levy—none. The only thing that could change that is if there is an election of a Liberal government, given your words here—you are defending this policy pretty adamantly—that the levy was a good idea. We have said, 'Don't collect it and we'll substitute that money you would have collected out of the budget and give you extra.'

Mr TELFER: Is the government planning on legislative and administrative changes that guarantee the establishment and maintenance of an enhanced Outback Communities Authority model of outback governance as per the recommendations within the Outback Futures Report?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The advice I have received again is that the only way they can collect the levies is through permission of the minister.

Mr TELFER: It is not about a levy, it is about—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: The report. For them to collect a levy, they need to seek permission of government. It has been funded, so they will not be seeking permission from the government to collect the levy.

Mr TELFER: Is the government planning on legislative and administrative changes that guarantee the establishment and maintenance of an enhanced Outback Communities Authority model of outback governance as per the recommendations within the Outback Futures Report?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will take that on notice and get back to you.

Mr TELFER: Thank you. I am happy to go on with the same program, continuing on page 140 and speaking about the boundaries commission. Has there been any substantive progress on any substantial boundary adjustment submissions from the grants commission in the last financial year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that the commission has received 17 proposals since 1 January 2019; of these, 11 did not proceed as they did not meet the statutory requirements or were withdrawn by the proponent. One has been completed and another is in its final stages of completion. The commission is working through a further four proposals, I am advised, including the significant council-initiated proposals of the Town of Gawler and Campbelltown City Council.

The commission has determined that it is proper to proceed with an inquiry for both these proposals. A procurement process is now underway, I am advised, to appoint investigators to conduct the detailed inquiries into the proposals. Procurement for the Town of Gawler proposal is meant to be completed by end of July this year, and Campbelltown City Council by the end of August 2023. The initiating councils will be informed of the expected costs to enable the council to decide whether or not these inquiries should proceed. Of course, they pay for the costs as per the act.

The commission recently conducted an inquiry into a publicly-initiated proposal to change the boundary between the Copper Coast Council and Barunga West council, as required under the relevant section of the act. The commission provided information on this matter and a recommendation to the local government minister. I have not seen that yet. I will take advice on that and get back.

Mr TELFER: Is that the Tickera—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I do not know, but I will get advice and get back.

Mr TELFER: What is the government's position on community consultation relating to council boundary reviews, noting that this was something the minister took on notice a number of months ago in question time?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that there is a statutory process that the commission must abide by in terms of community consultation. I understand the guidelines of that are published and are online now.

Mr TELFER: Continuing on with page 140, ongoing work, it is probably pertinent that you, as acting minister, are here in this one as well as it is probably cross-departmental. Has the minister or department done any further work into the regulatory regime impacting on electricity generators licensed pursuant to the Electricity Act 1996?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: That is a matter for the Treasurer.

Mr TELFER: Have the changes to be considered been proposed by local government?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: That is a matter for the Treasurer.

Mr TELFER: Continuing on page 140, is the grants commission considering any substantive changes to the grants distribution methodology in the coming financial year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I understand that there is commonwealth legislation that governs the principles of distribution of moneys. I understand the commission regularly reviews itself and its methodology, and that is an ongoing body of work that they do.

Mr TELFER: So there is no substantive review?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Not that I am aware of, no.

Mr TELFER: Has there been any change in allocation of funds to SA from the federal government which are distributed by the SA Local Government Grants Commission because of methodology implications?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Other than the flaw in GST that the Liberal government gave to Western Australia, which was supported by the Marshall government wholeheartedly, I cannot think of any other HFE changes.

Mr TELFER: A totally different methodology, that one.

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I cannot think of any methodology that has been changed, no.

Mr TELFER: What is the expected workload of the grants commission this year?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will take that on notice.

Mr TELFER: Staying with program 7 on page 141, one of the government's targets for 2023-24 is the introduction of a new Community Engagement Charter. I recall from my time in local government that discussions with the state government on a Community Engagement Charter have been continuing and were advanced for a time. Can the minister set out the likely costs of this process and can he also explain how the project has advanced in the last 16 months?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I will take that on advice and get back to you with a detailed answer, given that Minister Brock is not here and he has been dealing with it.

Mr TELFER: Thank you, I appreciate that. Last year's budget included a note that the Office of Local Government provides policy and other advice to the Minister for Local Government, and I note that across the whole community, and especially speaking about the challenges with the public health emergency and the change that needed to be put in place during that time, attitudes towards electronic meetings for any organisation, including councils, have developed and been informed through shared experience. My question is: will the Office of Local Government make resources available in the 2022-23 year for a review of participation in local council meetings by electronic means?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Knowing Geoff Brock as well as I know him, he is very passionate about local government and, he being a regional member, anything we can do to encourage participation in council meetings, especially if they are remote, he would encourage. He will consider any proposal put to him by any council. While he is away, I am happy to continue that work because I think it is a good idea. I have no problem with regional communities having regional council meetings online if the services are available. It is dangerous to travel at night and it can be quite an impost on regional communities to try to find people to stand for regional office, given the nature and the distances involved in some communities, so whatever improves participation we are for.

Mr TELFER: Is this a body of work which the Office of Local Government has taken into consideration for their workload in 2023-24?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: I am advised that in the context of the election participation review this will make up a body of that work.

Mr TELFER: A part of the election review?

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Of participation, yes.

Mr TELFER: Can I clarify: it talks about election participation and I thought that meant participation as in voter turnout and the like, but is that also talking about—

The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Encouraging people to stand, and any other framework that might be necessary. If you ask someone to stand, you have to make sure that you have the appropriate things in place to make sure that the actual physical act of being a councillor is as convenient to meet modern lives as possible. Why would they not? I would encourage it. I will get a proper briefing on it in the short four weeks that I will be acting, until Minister Brock returns.

The CHAIR: The time having expired, I declare the examination of the portfolio of the Office of Local Government, Outback Communities Authority, and the Local Government Grants Commission completed. The examination of the proposed payments for the Department for Infrastructure and Transport and the Administered Items for the Department for Infrastructure and Transport are now complete. I thank the officers for their contribution over the year and in the lead-up to estimates.

Sitting suspended from 14:46 to 15:00.