Motions

Veterans Suicide Support Services

The Hon. A. PICCOLO (Light) (11:31): I move:

That this house—

(a) honours the service and sacrifice of current and former members of the Australian Defence Force;

(b) recognises the strong and respectful advocacy of Ms Julie-Ann Finney in addition to other grieving families and members of the veteran community who have successfully advocated for a commonwealth government inquiry into veteran suicides; and

(c) urges the commonwealth government to implement, as soon as practical, the key recommendations regarding the implementation of veteran-specific suicide prevention, monitoring and data collection programs, the implementation of measures designed to improve the welfare of veterans and their families, and proposals to improve the transition of ex-service personnel into civilian employment, as detailed in The Constant Battle: Suicide by Veterans (an August 2017 report of the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee), Veterans' Advocacy and Support Services Scoping Study (a December 2018 report of the Australian government), and A Better Way to Support Veterans (a June 2019 report of the Productivity Commission).

I would like to draw members' attention to various parts of this motion. The first part deals with honouring the service and sacrifice of current and former members of the Australian Defence Force. I think it is an appropriate occasion to do so today, given that it will be the last opportunity we have to debate this matter prior to ANZAC Day.

Regrettably, this year ANZAC Day will not be celebrated in the normal way, with a whole range of ceremonies around the country, because of the coronavirus. However, there are other ways that we can in our own way honour our current and former defence personnel while still complying with the health guidelines for this period. I think it is very important that we do that.

Even though we are in a health crisis at the moment, we need to make sure that we do not forget those who served this nation in a variety of ways, with many making the ultimate sacrifice with their life. We should not forget them at this time. Some suggestions made by the RSL and other veteran organisations about the way we can remember the courage and service of our defence personnel include, for example, standing in your driveway at 5.55am, observing a minute's silence while the ode is played.

You can also put a red item on your letterbox, symbolising family members waiting for a letter to arrive from overseas either from the family member or, worse, from the government saying that their loved one has been killed in war. You can fly the flag. You can follow some services on TV; there will be some limited services on television. You can perhaps sit down and speak with your children or grandchildren and explain to them why this day is very important. There is a whole range of ways on this day that we can honour those who have given their life.

On ANZAC Day, we remember those who have given their life on the battlefield. This motion is about honouring not only those lives but also the lives of those people who have given their life, unfortunately, off the battlefield—those ex-service personnel who have taken their own life. I understand that, since 2001, 400 serving and ex-defence personnel have taken their lives. This is particularly sad because these are people who have taken their life while trying to re-enter the community and rebuild their normal life.

Sometimes words fail to describe the enormity of a tragedy, and I think this is one of those areas: trying to come to terms with the enormity of this tragedy for those people directly involved in taking their lives and also for their family members who are left behind. They are often left seeking answers and trying to understand why their loved one has taken their life when they have been serving their nation. The second part of this motion addresses that in part.

It seeks to recognise the strong and respectful advocacy by Ms Julie-Ann Finney, in addition to that of other grieving families and members of the veteran community who have successfully advocated for a commonwealth government inquiry into veteran suicides. I have been very fortunate to have had the opportunity to meet with Julie-Ann Finney on a number of occasions, and I was moved not only by her words but by her demeanour and grace. This is a woman who lost a son to suicide, a son who served this nation, yet all she was seeking—and not from a place of anger—was not retribution but to understand what her son went through.

More importantly, she made it very clear on the occasions I spoke with her that she did not want any other mother or parent or brother or sister to go through the grief she has gone through and to suffer the pain she has gone through. Her call is a call to understand what her son did, but, more importantly, it is a call to understand what has happened and to make sure that it does not happen again because she has experienced it firsthand.

I do not know that experience. I have been very fortunate in life. I do not know the experience of losing a close one to war or losing a close one to suicide, but you can tell when she speaks with you that the pain is quite deep. We need to work with her and other mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters to make sure their loved ones do not do the same, so there was some light on the horizon when the Prime Minister announced an inquiry.

I say there was some light on the horizon with this inquiry because I am not quite clear about what actually has been promised by the government in terms of an inquiry. A whole range of terms is being used, but I do not understand yet and I am not clear that the terms of reference have been drawn up yet for this national inquiry. What I can say though is that I have met very few people who actually agree with what is proposed, or what they understand has been proposed.

Certainly, Julie-Ann Finney has made it very clear that after her initial positive reaction to what was said she is very disappointed, and I will come to that in a few moments. She is really disappointed in the way this matter has been handled. I am reading from a media release from the Hon. Darren Chester MP, Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister for Defence Personnel. His media statement says the government supports:

…the establishment of a permanent and independent National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention to inquire into all suspected veterans and ADF suicides…

He calls that 'a significant step forward in tackling this serious and complex national issue'. He goes on to say:

The National Commissioner will have the enduring powers and resources, formalised by terms of reference, to investigate suicides and related issues as they arise in the future, and also to review past cases, supported by the ability to conduct public hearings, receive submissions, and include families in the process should they wish. Importantly, these are ongoing powers not restricted to a one-off inquiry as would be the case with a royal commission.

It is interesting that a royal commission is an inferior inquiry, yet when it was announced the Prime Minister said that this was actually better than a royal commission. I would now like to put forward some views expressed by others of what has been proposed and explain why I believe what the Prime Minister has announced (and I say what I believe to be the case because I am not sure what has been announced at this point in time) I do not think is good enough for our veterans and their families.

The Senate recently passed a motion, supported by the Labor Party and all the minor parties in the Senate, that I think is very important. It reads as follows:

That the Senate—

(a) is not of the view that the Morrison Government's announcement of the National Commissioner for Defence and Veterans Suicide [Prevention] is 'better than a Royal Commission';

This is the view of the Senate. It continues:

(b) calls on the Morrison government to establish a Royal Commission into Veterans Suicide, with a clear start and end date; and

(c) invites the Royal Commissioner to recommend that a standing, permanent capability be established to oversee reform should the Commissioner see fit to do so.

The Senate is basically saying that you have a royal commission and you get to a position where you actually understand what is involved. Part of those recommendations hopefully will be to set up a permanent inquiry. That would actually cover what I believe these mothers and families are asking for. From what I understand, it is not what the Prime Minister has offered to this point. I will also quote Senator Steele-John, one of the Greens in the Senate, where he talks about discussing this issue with families who have a lost a child or another family member to suicide:

Anybody who has spoken with a family that has been touched by veteran suicide will know the pain they feel and the urgency that is demanded by so many for an independent and rigorous investigation that is able to look under every rock and stone and get an answer to the question why so many veterans are being driven to take these actions.

It is important this process breaks through the very bureaucratic barriers that have stopped other inquiries from making meaningful recommendations or delivering on meaningful recommendations, and there are a number of those. The reaction to the Prime Minister's proposal is interesting. I am quoting a piece by the ABC's 7.30 Report:

A Victorian coroner has recommended that the Department of Veterans Affairs…be subject to independent audits of its handling of the veterans' compensation claims following an inquest into the suicide of army veteran Jesse Bird.

The clear inference to make from that is that the way our bureaucracies are handling a whole range of issues is actually contributing to the loss of life of these people who have served their nation overseas. It continues:

Coroner Jacqui Hawkins called for the role of National Commissioner for Defence and Veterans Suicide Prevention to be dramatically expanded to allow for broader reviews of DVA processes, and investigations into complaints about the Department made by veterans.

This Coroner has actually looked at the Prime Minister's proposal and says that it is wanting. The Coroner has made a finding that what is being proposed by the commonwealth government is not enough: it is insufficient. The Coroner found, 'There appeared to be a lack of care, attention and proactive support,' given to veterans who come back from their service.

Tim White, the President of Law Society of South Australia, recently wrote a piece in the paper in which he talked about the number of suicides that have taken place. He also makes a very important point because people often say, 'Suicide is a matter of life. It happens to non-serving personnel as well.' That is certainly true: people in the general community, regrettably and sadly, also commit suicide. He goes on to say, 'The suicide rate for ex-servicemen is 18 per cent higher than the broader population.' So there is something wrong in our defence system that is not helping our defence personnel to re-enter the community in a safe way, and we need to address that.

In the case of ex-servicewomen, the stats are even worse. White says they are 'twice as likely to take their own lives as other women' in the community. Mr White is a person who has actually worked with veterans, and he says, 'I have seen many financially and emotionally ruined by the Department of Veterans Affairs' claims process,' when they talk about claims, etc. I would just like to quote The Advertiser,talking about Julie-Ann Finney:

The grieving Adelaide mother who has spent the past 12 months fighting for a national solution to veteran suicide is maintaining her calls for a full-blown royal commission.

Ms Finney, from Blair Athol, said the PM’s proposal to appoint an independent commissioner to investigate veteran suicide did not address the issues she believed were causing the crisis at the centre of the Australian Defence Force (ADF) and the Department of Veterans’ Affairs (DVA).

You have here the mother, who has agitated with courage and with grace to get a royal commission to look to help a whole range of other families in this nation who believe that this matter is not being properly addressed by our Prime Minister. I think it is very important. I understand that we are in a crisis at the moment and that this is probably not the number one issue we need to deal with, but make no mistake: this issue has to be addressed once our health emergency is over, and I can assure you the families of those veterans will not let it go or be hidden somewhere else.

I will also add that it is very important that while we do have a royal commission—and I think a royal commission will come, if not from this government then a future government—it is important that those recommendations made by a successive range of parliamentary inquiries be implemented immediately. There are a number of things that the government could be doing to reduce the risk of suicide amongst our veterans today. They need to give attention to these matters urgently because these people who have signed up to protect our nation deserve better.

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL (Dunstan—Premier) (11:46): I move to amend the motion as follows:

Delete paragraph (c) and insert:

(c) acknowledges the commonwealth government's initiative to establish the National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention, who will be empowered to make findings and recommendations to the government.

I thank the shadow minister for bringing his motion to the house. I think it is a very important motion and the government will be supporting paragraphs (a) and (b) in particular:

That this house—

(a) honours the service and sacrifice of current and former members of the Australian Defence Force;

(b) recognises the strong and respectful advocacy of Ms Julie-Ann Finney, in addition to other grieving families and members of the veteran community who have successfully advocated for a commonwealth government inquiry into veteran suicides;

This is a very important time for the veteran community in Australia; in fact, it is a very important time for the entire population of Australia as we lead up to a very different ANZAC Day from those we have experienced in the past. This is, if you like, our most solemn day, when we commemorate the service and sacrifice of so many men and women who have served in the ADF, and in many other roles as well, to protect of our freedoms in Australia.

I for one have been very pleased to see the growing numbers of people who have been attending ANZAC Day dawn services in recent years. In fact, if we go back 10 or 15 years, there were very few who turned up. Each year, as we were heading towards the centenary of ANZAC, we saw those numbers grow and grow. It is with a great deal of sadness that this year, because of the COVID-19 situation, we will not be able to have those large commemorations, sub-branch by sub-branch and electorate by electorate, right across this country.

Here in South Australia, we will be continuing with the dawn service at the National War Memorial on North Terrace. There will be a modified service, which will be telecast, and we look to telecast in conjunction with the service that will be held at the National War Memorial in Canberra. This, of course, will be attended by His Excellency the Governor of South Australia, the Hon. Hieu Van Le, here on North Terrace with a very much reduced number of other dignitaries and a special message to be conveyed to those people who are watching from home.

The shadow minister has outlined other measures that have been suggested on the national stage and supported here in South Australia by the RSL. I must say that it was with great regret that I had to inform Cheryl Cates, the President of the RSL SA and NT, about the federal government's decision, but we have agreed to work together for the dawn service and this very solemn and important commemoration to continue. So we are very, very pleased to support paragraph (a).

We are also very pleased to support paragraph (b). We do genuinely thank Ms Julie-Ann Finney for her courage in bringing the issue of veteran suicide to an issue that has been very high on the agenda nationally. We thank her for that, because it is a courageous move. Her son lost his life to suicide back in February 2019. He served our country with distinction in the Royal Australian Navy for two decades. He did suffer from post-traumatic stress, and this continued when he had left the Royal Australian Navy.

Since this time, Julie-Ann Finney has raised this concern to members here in South Australia and more broadly around the country. Her petition was signed by more than 300,000 people. To me, this really indicates that the people of Australia are very, very concerned about the extraordinarily high levels of veteran suicide, the unacceptably high level of veteran suicide. We all need to do all we can to address this issue.

In South Australia, after the election I established the Premier's Council on Suicide Prevention. One of the areas of representation that we made sure of was that we had a veteran on this important body. It has now completed two years of work and its work has now been extended for a further year. I thank the Hon. John Dawkins for his chairmanship of this particular group.

Ms Finney had been advocating for the establishment of a royal commission to look into veterans' suicide. This was an issue that she spoke to me about on 20 November when we met in my office at the State Administration Centre. I committed at that meeting to raise her concerns personally with the Prime Minister. Although I do not recall the exact date that I spoke to the Prime Minister, it would have been in late December when I had an opportunity to speak to the Prime Minister about Ms Finney's concerns and her advocacy for the establishment of a royal commission.

I could tell from my conversation with the Prime Minister that he was very moved by the representations that were made. He was very concerned about coming up with a model that would work. However, as the shadow minister would appreciate, whilst there were many people who signed the petition, there were many organisations of high standing that did not want to have this royal commission be put in place. I think that the resolution that the Prime Minister came up with was a very good resolution to this issue.

As the shadow minister would know, we now have a new permanent National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention in Australia, so it is not a once-off inquiry. It is an inquiry that has no end. It is a permanent commission. This new independent body will investigate all suspected veteran and ADF suicides and investigate measures to help save lives. The commissioner will be an independent and permanent public accountability body with the same powers of a royal commission to compel the production of evidence, to summon witnesses and make findings and recommendations to government. The commissioner will also provide an ongoing investigative function of individual cases of suicide, working with each state and territory coronial office making recommendations to government.

This was announced by the Prime Minister on 5 February. On 10 February, we had a veterans ministers roundtable meeting with all states and territories represented. This provided the federal minister, Darren Chester, with an opportunity to go through the details of the Prime Minister's decision regarding the establishment of this new permanent National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention.

I do not recall any of the state or territory ministers opposing the establishment of this new body at the meeting. In fact, we thought that it was a good way to provide a necessary oversight of an issue that we all must work together to improve in Australia.

The shadow minister raises questions that were posed by the Victorian Coroner and which relate to investigations to do with DVA issues more broadly. These were not envisaged in the original royal commission into veteran suicide that was put forward by the petitioners, and the questions that are raised by the Victorian Coroner are probably very important issues more broadly to do with DVA.

However, we believe that the federal government's position on this is very sound. It is respectful of the magnitude of the problem that we face here in South Australia, and although it will not satisfy every person we believe it is an adequately resourced permanent commission to look at this very important issue for our country.

With those words, as I said, we will certainly be supporting paragraphs (a) and (b), and we seek to amend the motion with the insertion of a new paragraph (c).

Mr PEDERICK (Hammond) (11:56): I rise to support the amended motion in regard to veteran suicide. I note the initial two paragraphs of the motion, which read:

That this house—

(a) honours the service and sacrifice of current and former members of the Australian Defence Force;

(b) recognises the strong and respectful advocacy of Ms Julie-Ann Finney, in addition to other grieving families and members of the veteran community who have successfully advocated for a commonwealth government inquiry into veteran suicides; and

Amended paragraph (c) reads:

(c) acknowledges the commonwealth government's initiative to establish the National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention who will be empowered to make findings and recommendations to the government.

Looking after our veterans as much as possible is the least we can do. As I have mentioned in this place before, many members of my family for well over 100 years have served in the defence forces. Some of my family members served in the militia back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and in World War I my great-uncle Joe Pederick served at the Somme and got what I guess you could call a million dollar injury. He was walking between two blokes and was shot by a sniper through the nose from the side. He was repatriated to England for treatment, obviously, and by the time he was right to go the war was over.

Certainly, I had several uncles who served in World War II. My uncle Les Dutton served in the Navy on a ship, the Shropshire. He actually served with my neighbour, Maurie Williams, from Coomandook, who has since passed away. Another uncle, Uncle Os, served on Sunderland flying boats bombing submarines in the English Channel, and Keith Leske served in the Army in the various fields of service—I applaud their service.

I also want to acknowledge my father's service. He was basically ordered to stay home and provide feed for the nation and the state. I recently came across his service record. He served with the 10 Battalion Volunteer Defence Corps and his service number was S80200. Even though he did not go overseas to serve, as he was helping to provide food for the nation, he served in a role here to defend the nation in case of attack.

I also want to acknowledge my brother Chris Pederick. He served in the Australian Defence Force for 23 years. He had a small gap in between, as there was a time line arrangement where he pulled out for a while then came back in and could still accumulate his service. He went in as an infantryman and then went in with the mechanics and the RAEME. He did great service. One of the interesting times was when he went to Rwanda in 1995 as part of United Nations Peacekeeping when horrendous massacres were happening between the Hutus and the Tutsis.

The rules of engagement under UN battlelines are not too flash. They are not really battlelines. It was basically: 'Hold your fire until you're almost overrun.' Those are the rules of engagement under the United Nations scheme. I know he went to pick up the ambulance from where the massacre was. He went in there 10 days later and reckoned he had about 50 AK-47s pointed at him. He said, 'Well, the bulletproof vests we had at the range wouldn't have been any good.' I applaud his service in Rwanda.

Interestingly enough, he did get the Australian Service Medal for service overseas as a peacekeeper. Thirteen years later, it was put up to active service, but he also got an Australian Active Service Medal for serving in Iraq in a six-month tour at the end of 2005 and early 2006. Serving there was also a very dangerous mission, especially doing the runs between the airport and Baghdad. He can, if he likes, get the bar for his Australian Active Service Medal. A couple of months ago in Canberra, for the 25^th anniversary of that Rwanda service the unit was awarded a Meritorious Unit Citation by the federal government.

That is a brief outline of the people I know who have served over the years. I talked earlier about Uncle Les, who served in the Navy in World War II and in the Army in Korea with another uncle, Royce Baohm, so there has been lots of service over time and it is very interesting to see the things that go on. Back in the time when my brother Chris was in Iraq, the support to the next of kin from the government was meritorious. It was just fantastic. I could not send enough FruChocs to him in Baghdad.

Talking about suicide is a very serious thing, and I note Julie-Ann Finney's advocacy. American defence members do 12-month tours. I do not think too many of our services here do 12-month tours. It is a long, long time—it is Vietnam War era stuff—to be away serving your country in a battle zone. Our defence personnel do six-month tours. I have reflected on my brother's friend Ian, who was hardened by military life serving not only in peacetime operations but also in Iraq, where I think he did three tours in the end. I think he got past the psychs, and that affected him. Sadly, he was taken a few years ago with throat cancer, but he was one of the coolest cats.

Things happen to people, I have seen it happen to people and I have mentioned him in here before. The strongest people who you think would never have any issues can crack because they see things we do not see. They witness things we do not see. They can come back and be as large as life and full of courage but I think it is those hidden scars. It was noted from the times of World War I with shell shock—PTSD back then—and, obviously, World War II had similar things, as in any war whether it was Korea, Vietnam or the more recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I want to commend the many hundreds of thousands of people who have served this state and this nation, and not just in their overseas service. It is just as vital a service for people to serve their country here because, without our defence forces, we would not be the country we are. I want to very quickly acknowledge, in the short time I have left, the work of the defence force in the recent issues with the bushfires around the state and the nation. It is just fantastic what they have done, coming in to play to support communities, whether they be reservists or full-time serving people.

I want to acknowledge in the closing few seconds the commonwealth government's initiative to establish the National Commissioner for Defence and Suicide Prevention who will be empowered to make findings and recommendations to the government. I certainly support all our service men and women in everything they do, no matter where they serve.

The Hon. A. PICCOLO (Light) (12:06): I thank the other speakers—the member for Hammond and the member for Dunstan—for speaking partially in support of my motion. I indicate that we will not be accepting the amendment; we will be opposing it when it comes to a vote. I will explain why. I think I have a duty to explain why.

Firstly, by his own admission, the member for Dunstan—the Premier, who is the Minister for Veterans' Affairs in this state—indicated in his contribution that when he put the Victorian Coroner's findings aside, he was already limiting what the scope of this commission would be. He said that it is a DVA matter over here, somewhere else. With all due respect, they are not somewhere else. The behaviour and actions of the DVA, the behaviour and actions of the defence forces, the behaviour and actions of a whole range of organisations and individuals all need to be considered by a royal commission. They all make a contribution, not necessarily deliberately, to either the wellbeing or the fact that some of our ex-defence personnel take their lives.

To narrow that debate, to narrow that inquiry already, as the Premier has done in his contribution, explains quite rightly why we need a broader royal commission. That is why the Victorian Coroner has basically said that the current model is not sufficient. What is proposed is insufficient. It will not uncover the truth that the families are seeking. We would be betraying both the service personnel and their families if we do not set up a royal commission which uncovers that truth and sets up guidelines for the future.

More importantly, we must fully appreciate that, as the member for Hammond has indicated, our service personnel do tours overseas, quite dangerous tours, and some lose their lives. But for some, it is that last tour, the tour at home, which is the most dangerous because that is where they lose their lives. We need to find out why that is happening. Again, I say respectfully that what is proposed by the federal government is insufficient to do that. The Premier quite correctly pointed out that some service organisations put their signatures to a statement opposing a royal commission, and that is certainly true.

I have spoken to many of the organisations to try to understand why, and they have explained to me the reason is that they do not want a royal commission established which means we do nothing for the next two, three or four years while the inquiry is undertaken and nothing happens to support our veterans today. That is why paragraph (c) was inserted into the motion deliberately in response to general concerns raised by the veteran organisations to make sure that what we already know through a number of inquiries, both inside and outside the parliament, is that that work should be undertaken today.

I do not think it is deliberate, but by removing paragraph (c) the Premier has effectively gutted the motion and acted contrary to the wishes of those service organisations. It was their wish to say, 'Let's implement already what we know to protect our ex-servicemen to make sure they do not suicide.' By removing that, he has gutted the motion and effectively put everything on hold until this national inquiry makes some recommendations. I do not support that.

The families of those service personnel who have suicided do not support that. The service organisations do not support that. They want action today. That is why this motion was deliberately crafted in this way to make sure that we take action today and strengthen that action with a royal commission for tomorrow.

I have met a number of defence personnel who have indicated to me that they have either attempted or contemplated suicide, and I can assure you that their relationship with the Department of Veterans' Affairs, their relationship with the defence department, is important and we need to understand that. We need to understand that relationship if we are going to prevent further suicide. What the Premier has done—to exclude that from this commission inquiry—does a disservice to the service personnel and their families. With those few comments, I would encourage members to oppose the amendment and support my original motion.

The house divided on the amendment:

Ayes 13

Noes 13

Majority 0

The SPEAKER: There being 13 ayes and 13 noes, we have a tie. Accordingly, I cast for the ayes.

Amendment thus carried; motion as amended carried.

The Hon. A. Koutsantonis: Status quo again, sir?

The SPEAKER: The member for West Torrens talks about 'status quo'. I imagine he is speaking about a band from the seventies.