Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights (Suspension of Executive Board) Amendment Bill

Second Reading

The Hon. S.E. CLOSE (Port Adelaide—Minister for Education and Child Development, Minister for Higher Education and Skills) (12:03): I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

I seek leave to have the second reading explanation inserted in Hansard without my reading it.

Leave granted.

I rise to introduce the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights (Suspension of Executive Board) Amendment Bill 2017.

This Bill amends the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights Act 1981, to continue the Minister's current power to suspend the APY Executive Board, for any reason the Minister sees fit, for such period as the Minister deems appropriate, and for this power to be made on-going.

The Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights (Miscellaneous) Amendment Act 2016 came into operation on 1 January 2017, with the exception of section 13, which is due to commence on 1 July 2017. This section will vary section 13O(1) of the APY Act to restrict the Minister's power to suspend the APY Executive Board. The Minister would only be able to suspend the Executive Board if it fails to comply with certain Ministerial directions, such as to prepare a report or take an action that prevents detriment to Anangu.

It is the Government's view that a Ministerial direction under section 13 of the APY Amendment Act would be too limited, and unlikely to facilitate timely remedial action should the need arise. A broad and on-going reserve Ministerial power to suspend the Board for any reason is a better safeguard against serious failings in APY governance.

On 5 April 2017 a new APY Executive Board was elected following changes to the electoral process, in particular requiring gender balance. The day was historic for APY, and particularly so given the inclusion of a legislative requirement for gender balance.

Seven Anangu men and four Anangu women have now been elected to the Board, with supplementary elections to be undertaken for women in three electorates.

I am pleased to inform members that on election day the implementation of reforms to the electoral process went very smoothly, such as the use of a Voters roll and computer voting instead of marbles. Nonetheless, the task ahead for the new Board is not without its challenges.

I believe it is prudent and appropriate to continue the existing Ministerial power in section 13O(1) of the APY Act to be able to suspend the Board for any reason .

I emphasise that this is a reserve power, it is a safeguard, that has to date not been exercised and I hope remains unexercised.

I would like to extend my congratulations to all the new members of the APY Executive Board, and I know the Minister looks forward to working constructively with them for the benefit of all Anangu over the next three years.

I commend the Bill to Members.

Explanation of Clauses

Part 1—Preliminary

1—Short title

2—Commencement

3—Amendment provisions

These clauses are formal.

Part 2—Amendment of Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights Act 1981

4—Amendment of section 13O—Minister may suspend Executive Board

This clause amends section 13O(1) of the principal Act to allow the Minister to suspend the Executive Board for any reason the Minister thinks fit.

Mr TARZIA (Hartley) (12:03): I have been waiting a long time to speak on this, Deputy Speaker.

Members interjecting:

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I ask everyone to leave the chamber in silence so we can hear the member for Hartley.

Mr TARZIA: Thank you for your protection, Deputy Speaker. I rise today to speak in favour of the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights (Suspension of Executive Board) Amendment Bill, and indicate that I am the lead speaker on this side of the chamber. The Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights (Suspension of Executive Board) Amendment Bill was introduced to the other place on Wednesday 10 May 2017. What the bill does is seek to make permanent the reserve power of the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Reconciliation to suspend the APY Executive Board without recourse.

By way of background, this power of the minister, which is obviously a quite substantial power, to suspend the board in question was a significant part of the past changes to the APY Land Rights Act that were made in December 2014. I understand that the Greens at the time moved an amendment adding a 12-month sunset clause to the power, which was amended to three years by negotiation of the house, largely due to the fact that the Legislative Council did not really have that much confidence in the minister at the time. However, since those days there has been a succession of ministers. With the current minister, there has been a realisation that what we have now is actual stability up there and that these powers are of benefit to the ongoing, day-to-day, successful operation of competent governance in that part of the APY lands.

The bill removes the sunset clause that I was talking about, thereby legislating and codifying explicitly the minister's power to suspend the APY board without caveat. Given that the sunset clause in question is due to expire at the end of the year, if we do not act before then, it will return the legislation to what was in place prior to December 2014, which was that the minister was required to meet certain criteria before a suspension can be executed. We find this unacceptable.

We have seen in the past how, unfortunately, if these things are not controlled and there is not good accountability, there can be dysfunctionality at times. We want to make sure that the accountability is there and that the stability of the executive ensues, and so we believe that if the executive do have this condition then they are able to be brought into line, if the minister feels that it is necessary to act in a certain way. The bill gives the minister of the day a very valuable bargaining chip in dealing with the lands.

We have gone through what the bill does. We have also gone through why we must act with this now. Obviously, though, we would like nothing more than there to be excellent accountability up there and also stability as well. I look forward to the passage of the bill through the house, and I am informed that we will have other speakers speaking with similar statements. I commend the bill to the house.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It looks like the member for Morphett is going to make a contribution.

Dr McFETRIDGE (Morphett) (12:08): If I kept running, I would be out the door.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Don't hurt yourself.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. It is a great pleasure to again speak on one of the areas that I am particularly passionate about in this place, and that is Aboriginal affairs and reconciliation.

We hear about the plight of Aboriginal people in Australia and Closing the Gap all the time, but particularly in South Australia when you go up onto the APY lands you actually see the challenges facing many Aboriginal people in South Australia. Two and a half thousand people live on 103,000 square kilometres of freehold Aboriginal land. All members of parliament must get up to the lands to meet the people, see what wonderful people they are and look at their challenges but also embrace the opportunities.

In fact, I had the pleasure of being up there last week with the Aboriginal Lands Parliamentary Standing Committee. The member for Adelaide accompanied us on the trip. I extend an invitation to other members if trips are being planned. They should alert members of the standing committee because I know they would be more than welcome to come along. They may have to cover some of their own expenses, but the plane is booked and the travel is booked, in most cases. Some accommodation may be necessary, but it is an experience you will never forget. It is an amazing place. There is some of the most beautiful country in the world on the APY lands. Mount Woodroffe is the highest point in South Australia.

Last week, we had the pleasure of going to Cave Hill to see some 20,000-year-old rock art. I had not seen it on the lands, but the committee saw it last year in East Arnhem Land. The deep cultural roots that our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders have in their land are really exemplified by witnessing firsthand the stories from the traditional owners when you go to these places, and the APY lands is one of those places.

Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara means the Pitjantjatjara people and the Yankunytjatjara people. Anangu is just the Pitjantjatjara word for people. They have lived in the Central Desert for thousands and thousands of years. As I said, the dating on these paintings the other day went back to 20,000 years ago, and it is possibly longer than that with more accurate forms of dating coming into place.

The history of the communities on the APY lands has been long and, unfortunately, chequered. The Presbyterian Church started some of the missions there, and Ernabella, which is now known as Pukatja, is obviously the most well known. With about 300 people there, it is one of the bigger communities in the APY lands.

The committee visited the eastern part of the lands this time when we went up there. We went to Kaltjiti, which people may know as Fregon, where we met the committee council and discussed some of the issues they have in Fregon. The big issues you hear about all the time are housing and, obviously, jobs. With the economy on the APY lands, there are huge opportunities, but those opportunities have yet to be grasped.

We then went to Umuwa, which is really the administrative centre. The APY Executive meet there and the APY offices are there, as are the police headquarters and the sites for RASAC, which is the regional Anangu service delivery people who deliver council services across the lands. Mark 'Jacko' Jackson is a fabulous bloke. He is an ex-copper and has been working up there for close to 30 years. He knows the people individually and has grown up with their kids. That is the sort of connection we all strive to achieve on the lands to get some credibility and solidarity.

Nyalu Pitjantjatjara nintini tjuku tjuku. I speak a little bit of Pitjantjatjara, but not as much as I would like to be able to speak. I deliberately took the language course to show respect and get some credibility for my position as a member of parliament and one-time shadow minister as well. It is important because we must never forget that there are 39 different language groups in South Australia and Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara are two of the larger language groups.

The tribal groups associated with those language groups have been there for many years. It is a part of South Australia. They are South Australians. Some people would say they are part of the first nations of South Australia. I heard an interesting legal argument about that the other day, which I will go back and try to comprehend as a humble veterinarian. I am not a lawyer, and in saying that I am boasting, not apologising. I want to appreciate not only the English legal concept but the property rights concept of where we have come from and to acknowledge land rights and sea rights, which, as I saw the other day in the Northern Territory, are also important. These people are South Australians and they are a unique part of South Australia.

It is a bit like the EU in many ways: it is one big organisation, but when you go to Europe there are a lot of different countries with different traditions and different languages. On the APY lands, English is the second or sometimes the third language after Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara for a lot of people up there. The traditions, the cultures, the expectations and the values are quite different.

There is a lot of talk about the millions and millions of dollars that are poured into Aboriginal affairs, but the concept and value of money are quite different on the lands. The global budget is about $200 million a year that is poured into the lands and there are still a lot of challenges and issues. That is not because they are not willing participants in change; it is about the fact that they really do not have the same value systems as we do. That is why we need to understand how they think and they need to comprehend how we think.

The reality is that it is 2017, not 17 BC, and things have changed. They know that. Part of that change is having a governance structure on the lands that is set up under the act—the APY Executive Board—which then administers the act on behalf of the Anangu. The executive board has had a long and troubled history, and that is not putting too fine a point on it. There have been a lot of petty jealousies and a lot of family fights and differences of opinion between the different clans and groups across the land when it comes to being on that committee. Bringing these people together has been not without difficulty.

The general managers who have worked with the APY Executive have sometimes been very good. Unfortunately, there have also been other examples where the general managers have not been up to par and have not understood the expectations of the Anangu. The current general manager is Mr Richard King, along with his wife, Tania—Tania's role is as a community liaison officer; I am not sure of her official role—and they are doing a good job under difficult circumstances. Questions are being raised about the way in which Mr King is conducting himself. Some people think that he is acting like a benevolent dictator, others are very complimentary of him and others think that he is ignoring the executive.

On the lands you will get a number of opinions from people and so part of my role, as a member of parliament, is to try to find out the truth. That is why I have been FOI-ing a lot of documents and handwritten minutes, to make sure that what is being said is an accurate representation of what actually occurred. Mr King and I have had full and frank discussions about what is going on in the lands. I wish him well in trying to do his job as the general manager up there. With the new executive coming, it is going to be a brave new world for everybody.

In relation to the bill, the removal of the sunset clause and extending the ministerial powers could have been thought about a little bit more benevolently—I think that is probably the best word—not in a patronising way. A lot of work has been done over many years sorting out how the APY Executive functions, how people are represented and how the executive are elected, their roles, how they get paid, their allowances and their code of conduct.

There are so many things that have been discussed and argued about and changed over the years, the most recent being, as most members will be aware, the bringing in of 50 per cent women onto the board, changing the award structure, and having up to 14 members on the executive board. The roles of the executive board, as set out in the act are as follows:

9B—Functions and powers of the Executive Board

(1) The Executive Board is the governing body of the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara.

(2) Subject to this Act, the Executive Board—

(a) is responsible for carrying out the functions of Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara and the day-to-day business of Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara; and

(b) may, in carrying out the functions of Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara, exercise any power conferred on Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara by or under this Act.

(3) The Executive Board must, in carrying out its functions, endeavour to advance the interests of Anangu at all times—

particularly the traditional owners—

(4) The Executive Board must comply with a resolution of Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara made at an annual or special general meeting held in accordance with this Act that directs the Executive Board to act, or to not act, in a specified manner.

(5) An act of the Executive Board done in accordance with this Act is binding on Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara.

That is the function of the board. The board has been dysfunctional in the past. I have known the current board members for a long time, and I have known the current chair, Frank Young, for many, many years. He is a really decent fellow and a very intelligent man—a traditional owner. I first met Frank at Watarru, but that is another story. It is a very small community with millions of dollars of government infrastructure that has basically been abandoned. I had heard that a lot of the facilities had been trashed, but, fortunately, we have been told this week that the facilities there are in a lot better condition than we had been led to believe. Frank is a very thoughtful and very intelligent man. I look forward to seeing the APY Executive Board prosper and advance under his chairmanship.

I have known many of the other board members for many years, particularly Donald Fraser. Donald is a delightful character, and I first met him at Campbell Park. He was wheeling and dealing in cattle, and there is a wonderful story about a truck he sold to people at Watarru for Kuka Kanyini, the camel program out there. Donald is always open for an opportunity, but, again, he has been there a long time and he is a reasonable fellow to deal with. He certainly is an addition to the board.

Young Sally Scales is the deputy chair—I think Sally is in her 30s—and she lives at Pipalyatjara. For people in this place, when you drive from Adelaide to Pipalyatjara, it is farther than driving from Adelaide to Sydney, except that the last 600 kilometres are over pretty ordinary roads. Young Sally will be a real asset to the executive. The executive is new, reformed and newly elected, so it should be given the opportunity to find its feet and find its way. That is why I think having this sword of Damocles type of clause hanging over their head could have been thought about and perhaps even set aside for a while.

Give them a chance, give them a go because there are other mechanisms in the act to reinstate the ministerial directive powers and bring the board to heel, if that is required. In this case, I hope that is not required, yet the government has seen fit—and based on past experiences, you cannot blame them—to continue with this clause. The current minister, the Hon. Kyam Maher, is second only to Terry Roberts in being an exceptionally dedicated and passionate Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. I know minister Caica, minister Portolesi and the other ministers I have served with over the years have all put their effort in, but they really have come nowhere near some of the results we are seeing now.

If it were another minister, I would perhaps be moving amendments to this legislation, but I will not be opposing it. However, I suggest to the government that there is a better way: rather than having this sword of Damocles clause in there, have a complete change. In the last few minutes, I will read into Hansard what I would consider to be a better amendment, namely, to appoint a receiver-manager. There are 11 clauses I would have put into this amendment, and I ask the government to consider it. The next time things do not go so well, this may be something they should do. It may be a better way to go—with the cooperation of the board, not sacking the board. My amendment states:

1. The minister may, for any reason he thinks fit, appoint a receiver and manager of the day-to-day operations, assets and undertaking of APY.

2. The appointment of the receiver takes effect from the date of gazettal of the appointment of the receiver by the minister.

3. The minister may revoke such appointment at any time for any reason he thinks fit by notice published in the Gazette.

4. The cost and expenses of the receiver are payable by APY as approved by the minister.

5. The receiver may:

(a) take possession of the assets, offices, records and funds of APY;

(b) direct any staff or contractor of APY;

(c) suspend or terminate any staff or contract of APY, including the general manager and/or director of administration for any reason the receiver thinks fit;

(d) orally or in writing seek information about the affairs of APY and/or the APY Executive Board from any member of staff or contractor of APY and/or any member of the APY Executive Board;

(e) issue a notice to any staff or contractor of APY and/or any member of the APY Executive Board requiring the production of documents belonging or relevant to APY and/or the executive board;

(f) enter and search any premises or location of the APY lands for the purposes of recovering any property, records or funds of APY, and to seize any such property, records or funds of APY.

6. Any person who fails or neglects to comply with a direction pursuant to section 5(b) above and/or a request pursuant to section 5(d) or (e) above commits an offence.

7. Any person who obstructs or hinders a receiver in the performance of his duties commits an offence.

8. The receiver must give a written report to parliament of the work undertaken and findings made as receiver each month following the receiver's appointment, and at the end of such appointment.

9. Each report pursuant to section 8 above must contain the receiver's opinion of whether any laws have been breached in relation to APY and/or the APY Executive Board, and any recommendations the receiver feels ought to be made about the administration of APY and/or the APY Executive Board.

10. During the period of the receiver's appointment, any power of the general manager under the act is suspended to the intent that all such powers will be exercised by the receiver during the period of appointment.

11. In the event that the minister gives to the APY Executive Board a direction under section 13N, which is currently in the act, the minister may, should he or she form the view that the direction will not be implemented and/or that the assets, records and/or funds of APY are at risk, suspend the APY Executive Board and appoint an administrator.

That, I think, would be something that should be considered by the government. It is a softer approach, but I think a much more thorough approach than just sacking the board and putting an administrator in there. You can go in and forensically look at what is going on there and work in cooperation with the board and not try to rewrite history, reinvent the wheel. It is something we need to do.

We need to understand how things work up there. I describe it sometimes as a parallel universe, but it is a wonderful place, it really is. It is a wonderful place to go, and the people are absolutely delightful to deal with. They have their challenges. The governance lessons they need to undertake in enabling them to do the work we have legislated for them to do are very important. I do not think it is being done as well as it should at the moment. We need more patience, and certainly we can go ahead and give the Aboriginal people, the Anangu, in the APY lands the chance and future they deserve.

I said to the tjilpis on the APY lands—they were talking about the stolen generation—that if we do not improve things we are stealing the future of the children. We need to make sure that things improve, and certainly anything we can do to make sure the administration on the lands is working the way it was intended is a good thing. Under the current minister, I am satisfied that this will not be abused.

Ms SANDERSON (Adelaide) (12:28): I rise in support of the APY Land Rights (Suspension of Executive Board) Amendment Bill, which allows the minister to suspend the executive board. I had the great privilege last week to accompany the Aboriginal Lands Parliamentary Standing Committee on their trip to the APY lands. It was my first time ever in the APY lands, and it was such an amazing and beautiful place. The countryside is absolutely gorgeous, and we were very lucky, as has already been stated, to see the 20,000-year-old paintings at Cave Hill.

We also were very fortunate to see a very special caterpillar dreaming, which I do not believe many people have seen before. It is an up and coming tourist spot that they would like to work on. The rock formations were quite amazing, depicting caterpillars, and we were able to see the beautiful wild flowers and foliage that grow in the red dirt and the beautiful hills. It was absolutely amazing.

We were very fortunate also in that we had a cultural experience on the first day. We had a lovely bonfire lunch, at which I tasted kangaroo tail for the first time—it tasted a lot like shanks to me, so quite similar in texture—and damper. We tried to find honey ants, but unfortunately the ant nest was empty that day. We needed to search elsewhere, so I did not get to try my first honey ants.

We visited the Trade Training Centre, which is absolutely amazing. It is such a wonderful facility for cooking classes. They also have woodwork and all kinds of different classes that would be very beneficial to the local area. We were lucky enough to have dinner there, so we sampled their fantastic cooking. I think we also had a lunch there at one point and we got to meet some of the brand-new students from Fregon high school, and we had a good chat with them as well. We visited Double Tank where we saw some camels.

We had a look at a road that is being built, the Umuwa to Pukatja road. That is an absolutely huge project, a long-term project, to improve the existing road. It is prone to flooding, which means that food and resources cannot get through to the town, so it is particularly important to make sure that road is accessible throughout the year. It was really wonderful to hear that the road project, which is being delivered by Toll, has more than 30 per cent of local people employed in that project. They showed us a slide show of all the different jobs that people are doing.

We heard about their training and skills program that will leave people with not only a job on that particular road project, which will be going on for several years, but also skills that are transferable. Hopefully, that will mean long-term employment on other projects throughout the APY lands. That was really lovely to see. We had meetings with leadership groups, meeting with them in three of their towns: Kaltjiti, Pukatja and Amata. There were certainly lots of issues that were raised on the lands, which I hope committee members will take on board and get those things done.

One issue that was mentioned was the length of time taken to get a working with children check so that they can get paid work. It is important that that is a speedy process and very efficient because people are relying on that clearance. A lot of the work in the towns does rely on a working with children check. They also have great difficulty in getting 100 points of identification because on the lands people do not have so many forms of ID, which we all carry in our wallets.

Dr McFetridge: There are not too many passports up there.

Ms SANDERSON: Yes, they do not have passports—

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No birth certificates.

Ms SANDERSON: —and many of the people do not have birth certificates. Overcrowding was mentioned in many of the towns. Certainly, in Amata there was great excitement about the dialysis machines that will be there soon, hopefully. They said, 'Hurry up, it's taking way too long,' but they are very pleased. We had a site visit to where the dialysis units will be going.

There were a few issues regarding the Public Trustee that were mentioned. Certainly, I have that in my own electorate as well, so that is not specific to the lands. With policing, there were issues around the fact that, when you call the police after 5pm, the phone lines are diverted to Port Augusta. The government will certainly need to have a look at how that issue can be solved. There are police on the lands and there are community constables as well; however, there is still difficulty getting police assistance in a reasonable amount of time.

The need for more street lighting was mentioned several times. I believe the government did spend $200,000 on upgrading and replacing street lighting that already exists; however, I believe there is also a great need for extra lighting. As towns expand, there are new areas that need lighting. It was also mentioned in the context of issues around children running wild at night-time. Some towns have groups of men who do patrols. They said that, if they find the youths, they will run off into the dark because there is not enough lighting. It is very hard then to track them down, find them and make sure that they get home.

There were issues around Skill Hire, which I believe is basically a work for the dole program on the lands. It used to be CDEP, which apparently they quite liked and was working quite well, but now it is CDP and they are not as happy with how that is being administered. They also mentioned that on the lands you are required to do 25 hours a week work or you get cut off for eight weeks, which is pretty severe to lose the amount of money, whereas in cities and other areas in Australia, apparently, between 15 and 20 hours of volunteering work is required. There is difficulty in managing that.

There are obviously a lot of issues that we do not experience in the city that Aboriginal people on the lands must survive. One issue is that they did not have a school bus for two weeks. There are not that many buses or bus drivers, so if one is sick or not available, or the bus is needed somewhere else or it is trapped because of flooding, there is just nobody else to drive it. In Prospect, a bus comes past every 15 minutes, but they do not have that sort of luxury in the lands. It was really such a privilege to go there and to see this for myself because I do not think, unless you see it and experience it, you can have a full understanding of it. I concur with the member for Morphett that this is something that every member of parliament should do at some point.

There was some good news as well. The elders and the people we met with identified different ways that money could be made on the lands through cattle trading, arts, tourism and accommodation. I was quite shocked to hear about the quite minimalist accommodation. The cheapest accommodation for families is $650 a week. It is very expensive. I really do not know how you could afford that. It might be why there are so many different families living in one house—perhaps it has to do with being able to pay for the rent.

In Umuwa, which is where the policing and service providers live, there is even a lack of accommodation. It was very hard to get the whole committee to have housing. I think the minimum is something like $110 per night. If you are a teacher or a police officer coming onto the lands, I expect that would be a great deal of your income being taken up by your accommodation costs. It was pretty well mentioned in every town we visited that more accommodation is needed, and overcrowding was mentioned many times as well.

We did see some of the TAFEs. They were not on our official tours, but we did see them. A highlight was visiting the art centres in both Ernabella and Amata. In Ernabella—I believe it is quite rare to have ceramics—is one of the only art centres that makes ceramics, and I was very fortunate to do some shopping and buy some beautiful ceramic vases. The lady who made one of the vases I bought was there working on some other artwork, so I was able to get a photograph with her and the artwork and, even better, it was her birthday, so it was a lovely thing to do.

I think the turnover of the art centre in Amata is something like $1 million a year. The art is very popular, of very high quality and absolutely amazing. I am not sure how that money is diverted back into the community; however, I believe it is a lot of money that could enhance the lives of all the people in the community if it were managed well. Certainly, it was wonderful to see people getting together and doing their artwork, some of which is being sold in two of the towns to help raise money for the dialysis centre. The member for Morphett has his eye on a lovely piece that was painted by many of the ladies in the town. It was a group effort, and it is a stunning and huge painting that will be auctioned soon for anyone who has an appreciation or love of art.

That summarises most of the things that came up. It was a privilege to see and visit these communities and towns and to hear about the issues they are experiencing. But there is one more I will mention, which definitely should be solved soon, I hope: if a Coroner removes a body from the lands, they do not pay to bring that body back. The community needs to raise the money—I believe it is around $8,000—in order to bring it back. There are some government grants, but not enough. This issue was raised with us several times. It seems outrageous that, if a body is removed from the lands, they have to pay to bring it back.

There were also issues around the cost of funerals, because if somebody passes away out of country there is a large cost. Obviously, it is a remote area and very difficult to get to. Because there have not been any dialysis machines on the lands, many of the sick or elderly have had to travel to Alice Springs or Adelaide in order to have dialysis, and then if they pass away out of lands it is a very costly expense to bring them back to be buried on their lands. With that, I will close.

Mr HUGHES (Giles) (12:40): I rise to say a few words about the amendment bill. I will also touch on the visit to the APY lands we made recently. That is twice in the last few weeks that I have been up to the APY lands—earlier with the cabinet, which was a very productive and useful visit on the part of the cabinet, and recently with the committee. I think it needs to be corrected about the cost of rental up in the APY lands. The $650 figure is actually a reference to those people who come from outside the community and stay in places like Umuwa where it might be about $110 a night (or more or less) depending on the nature of the accommodation. So, that is not the rental that is paid by the people who are actually resident Anangu people.

The Hon. J.M. Rankine: Who said it was $650?

Mr HUGHES: Pardon?

The Hon. J.M. Rankine: Who said it was $650?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Member for Giles, I just remind you about interjections and get you to speak to me.

Mr HUGHES: No, it is worthwhile clarifying. It depends on which accommodation you are talking about, but the $650 is for those people like ourselves who are visiting.

The Hon. J.M. Rankine interjecting:

Mr HUGHES: Yes, I am just clarifying the statement made by the member for Adelaide, so I think it is important to get that on the record. Certainly, the Aboriginal people who live on the lands are not paying $650 a week. It has been said that the APY lands—

Members interjecting:

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just talk to me, member for Giles. Member for Giles, talk to me.

Members interjecting:

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Member for Giles, keep talking to me.

Mr HUGHES: It is an incredibly beautiful part of the state, and people who go there are stunned by the landscape. Like a lot of South Australians, I had never been to the APY lands. I did not get an opportunity to go to the APY lands until I was elected. Most people know I have a very large electorate, which is the size of Germany in land mass with a population of a German town, and it adds to some of the challenges. When you look at the APY lands, it is the size of England with a scattered population of 3,000 people or thereabouts; it fluctuates somewhat. That, in itself, presents some incredible challenges when it comes to the delivery of services and staffing of some of the services.

One of the most valuable things that happened during that last visit was the informal discussion we had into the night around a fire with the new chair, Mr Frank Young. It was unfortunate that Sally Scales was not there during this visit because I think she is going to be a fantastic attribute for the APY lands. I have to say that she, along with some of us, plays a very wicked Cards Against Humanity. I think she is going to bring some very strong attributes to her role. All the experience and wisdom Mr Frank Young has came to the fore in that discussion around the fire.

That is why, in a number of ways, I rise today with a somewhat heavy heart when it comes to this bill because the amendment does give that capacity for the minister to have virtually, not completely, unfettered powers in relation to the executive, and those powers are not time limited; they are barring an amendment coming to this parliament at some subsequent time. It generates within me a degree of discomfort but, having said that, I have a lot of confidence in our current minister.

I now take up some of the points made by the member for Morphett. Now that we have an Anangu executive, I think there needs to be an opportunity to sit down with the new executive and, in consultation with the broader community, look at how we can put in place a way of handling some of the issues that have occurred in the past. There was a revolving door of CEOs for a number of reasons. There was a whole raft of issues, and it was out of that context that this sort of approach has come.

I am hoping that with a new executive, and with what I think will be a really positive step forward with the gender balance on that new executive, we might move to a different period and, as a result of that, what has been put forward today can be amended at sometime in the future. It is not directly equivalent but, if you were to look for an equivalent, the local government minister cannot just go and sack a local government; a definite process has to be gone through, and there are a number of different paths by which that can happen. I think we need to sit down with the executive and work through how best, for the long term, to handle these issues.

One of the things Frank Young said when we were sitting around the fire—and this was coming straight from the heart—is that sometimes the white man is like a wild dog and the Anangu are like a rabbit caught in the jaws of the wild dog, being pulled one way and then the other and just tossed around. He was saying that in relation to the bill we are discussing today, so I think it is important to get that on the record. I know from some of the comments that have been made by the opposition and people on this side that there is some discomfort with the approach we are taking.

There is some discomfort—well, maybe not with yourself—with the approach we are taking. Over time, there is the capacity to evolve and, as I have said, I know where this approach has come from, given the context that applied not all that long ago. We are in the early days of the new executive and, given the make-up of the executive, given the nature of the chair and given the nature of the deputy chair, I think things will improve.

Reference was made to Cave Hill and the rock art, which is stunning. If anyone ever gets the opportunity to visit Amata and be guided out there to look at Cave Hill, make use of that opportunity. If you cannot do that, Cave Hill—I think almost in its entirety, but certainly the ceiling—is to be replicated at the National Museum in Canberra, and I think the official opening by the elders is going to happen in October. There are thousands of years of history contained within Cave Hill. The other thing about Cave Hill, apart from the stunning cave art, is that when you move out of the cave the vista over the ranges and the plains is something to behold.

There are incredibly dedicated people working on the lands. There are fantastic people in all of those communities up in the lands. Like all of us, they just want some decent opportunities, but opportunities that recognise their culture and their connection to land. They do not want to be like that rabbit in the mouth of the wild dog, buffeted around by people who live a long way away.

One of the tendencies sometimes of people who go up there once or twice is to make snap judgements. I do not make any judgements, or I withhold making judgements in the main, because it is a case of over time developing relationships and developing some awareness. I am always mindful when I go there that I am not a resident. I am not there day in and day out. I live in an industrial community way to the south. That is why it is incredibly important that we work with Anangu to evolve the sorts of approaches that are necessary so that people can lead full lives.

There are real challenges up there, but there are good things happening. There have been changes over time in terms of facilities. Some of the policies are as a result of state government; some are as a result of the federal government. There was a perennial complaint about people being cut off from Centrelink and the massive impact that has on families. You are talking about families who are amongst the poorest in our state having to look after members of the family, or the extended family, who are no longer getting benefits. It is not as though there are jobs in abundance up there. The whole policy is incredibly poorly thought through.

It was interesting to have people reflect upon the older community development schemes that were in place, where projects were worked upon but you got a top-up for working on those projects, the old community employment development projects. There was an interest in returning to those. There was a recognition that working on projects in community is something worthwhile. There should be some top-up in people's income as a result of that, not just doing 25 hours a week in order to get your Centrelink payment and then if something happened for a day or two, or whatever the circumstances, you are cut off. It is a cruel and heartless policy that does not take account of the circumstances on the APY lands.

I will finish up by saying that it is with a heavy heart that I support this amendment. We do need to sit down and talk with Anangu about a better long-term response to the issues that have in the past surrounded the APY Executive. I agree with the member for Morphett that a softer approach is something that we should be looking at. When I say that, it is an approach that has to respect the culture that exists up there while also having an adequate degree of accountability and transparency. With those few words, I will take my seat.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I certainly look forward to reading the committee's report. The member for Reynell.

Ms HILDYARD (Reynell) (12:54): I also rise to briefly speak in support of the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Land Rights (Suspension of Executive Board) Amendment Bill 2017. As has already been outlined, the bill amends the APY Land Rights Act 1981 to continue the minister's current power to suspend the APY Executive Board for a reason he sees as fit.

This is not a power that any minister would ever use lightly, and I know that many of us in this house—including me—would never want it to be used except in extreme circumstances. It is, in fact, a power that has never been used. It is a reserved ministerial power only to be exercised in exceptionally dire situations where there are serious failings in governance, and it is a power that would only ever be exercised following rigorous and due process.

I certainly have great faith in our current Minister for Aboriginal Affairs always to act in a respectful manner and with absolute regard for good principles, practice and process. All communities must be able to rely on good and stable governance, and it is incredibly important that community members in the APY lands can do so. This broad discretionary power to suspend the executive board is a safeguard for the APY, and it is a power remaining in reserve should the need to use it ever arise.

Government ministers recently visited the APY lands for country cabinet, and I know that the member for Giles visited just last week. As he articulated so eloquently, he has visited on a number of occasions and he has listened deeply and developed much understanding about the various issues at hand. I also know that cabinet members were very pleased to meet with the new executive board following their recent election and, in particular, to congratulate the newly elected women members of the board. We know that in any setting diversity in decision-making is crucial to good and inclusive outcomes, and it is wonderful to finally see the inclusion of women members in this way on this board.

Our government is confident that the governance challenges—again, articulated by the member for Giles—of the former board are in the past and that the new board will bring fresh perspective, new skills and strong leadership to their role. We all look forward to and want a positive future for APY, to work alongside and collaboratively, and with deep respect, with the executive board towards stable leadership and good governance in the best interests of all community members on the APY. I commend the bill to members, and I also thank the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs for his work towards it.

The Hon. S.E. CLOSE (Port Adelaide—Minister for Education and Child Development, Minister for Higher Education and Skills) (12:57): I commend the bill to the house, and I thank all members for their contribution.

Bill read a second time.

Third Reading

The Hon. S.E. CLOSE (Port Adelaide—Minister for Education and Child Development, Minister for Higher Education and Skills) (12:57): I move:

That this bill be now read a third time.

Bill read a third time and passed.

Sitting suspended from 12:57 to 14:00.