PRISON CONDITIONS

Mr HAMILTON-SMITH (Waite) (14:25): My question is to the Minister for Health and Ageing. In his statements to the house yesterday, why did he characterise the prisoner known as Jacqui at Yatala as a classroom kid who had 'behaved poorly' and will he withdraw the remark?

The Minister for Correctional Services yesterday described Jacqui as suicidal and subject to 'psychogenic seizures,' and the clinical director and consultant physician from the Victorian-based personality disorder experts Spectrum has diagnosed this prisoner as 'a very complex psychiatric patient,' but in his answer to my question about Jacqui yesterday, the Minister for Health discussed her predicament in these terms:

...I used to have a classroom of kids, some of whom behaved beautifully and some of whom behaved poorly. We did not lock up the ones who behaved poorly in mental health facilities. We sometimes punished them, but we did not put them in a mental health facility.

The Hon. J.D. HILL (Kaurna—Minister for Health and Ageing, Minister for Mental Health and Substance Abuse, Minister for the Arts) (14:26): I am not sure what the point is that the member is making. I did not actually describe the woman as a schoolkid as he—

Mr Hamilton-Smith: Yes, you did.

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. J.D. HILL: The question is asked. It is a provocative question. It put words into my mouth.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. J.D. HILL: There was an allegation in the question that I described her in those terms. I did not do that. What I said—

An honourable member interjecting:

The Hon. J.D. HILL: You make these claims, then when I get on my feet to try to explain my intentions, you interrupt me.

Mrs Redmond interjecting:

The Hon. J.D. HILL: That is just par for the course. Let me explain. What I was trying to draw to the attention of the house was that while this woman—and as I said in my statement yesterday, whatever mental illness she may have, the clinicians tell me it is not appropriate for her to be in a mental health bed. I am not saying—just following up the verballing from the leader—that she does not have mental issues at all. I was trying to draw a distinction between somebody, for example, who is psychotic, who is drawn to do things because they have no control over themselves (they hear voices which compel them to do things) and—

Mrs Redmond interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order! Leader of the Opposition, order!

The Hon. J.D. HILL: —somebody who behaves in bad way. As I said, I was a teacher and I had experience of that. We all know what that is about. I was just giving an example for the benefit of the house. The advice I had—

Mr Pisoni: Very inappropriate.

The Hon. J.D. HILL: I was trying to explain the difference, if you did not understand it, between behaviour and a mental condition which compels people to act in a particular way. There is a difference between the two. That is all I was trying to do, was to explain to the house. In relation—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. J.D. HILL: Look at the judge sitting there with his arms folded. He should have a little black hat on as well, Madam Speaker.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr Hamilton-Smith: It was a silly analogy.

The Hon. J.D. HILL: He does not understand the word 'analogy'. I was not making an analogy between that patient and the classroom.

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. J.D. HILL: What I was doing was explaining the difference between a psychotic condition—

Members interjecting:

The SPEAKER: Order!

The Hon. J.D. HILL: —and another condition. The advice I have—

The SPEAKER: Order! Minister, could you please take your seat for a minute. This is the third question relating to this. I am sure you want to hear the answer, but I cannot hear it, so you can't either. Minister.

The Hon. J.D. HILL: The advice I have is in relation to the specific prisoner. Every avenue has been explored by the department to appropriately manage her complex needs in light of the fact that at this stage clinical advice remains that she does not warrant admission to a mental health facility. The advice from the Chief Psychiatrist is that she has a primary diagnosis of borderline personality disorder and her aberrant behaviour is, to a degree, deliberate, and is not primarily mental health illness.

That is what the Chief Psychiatrist tells me and, if I was clumsy in my expression of that so that the house could understand it, well so be it. I thought I was being very clear to the house, using language which I thought they might understand. There is a difference between psychotic behaviour which is involuntary and borderline personality disorder behaviour which is, to a large extent, controllable, and that is the point I was trying to make.