Department of Human Services, $1,118,873,000

Administered Items for the Department of Human Services, $235,634,000

Minister:

Hon. K.A. Hildyard, Minister for Child Protection, Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence, Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing.

Departmental Advisers:

Ms S. Pitcher, Chief Executive, Department of Human Services.

Ms R. Ambler, Deputy Chief Executive, Department of Human Services.

Mr N. Ashley, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Business Services, Department of Human Services.

Ms B. Marsden, Director, Office of the Chief Executive and Governance, Department of Human Services.

Ms S. Vas Dev, Director, Inclusion Support and Safeguarding, Office for Women, Department of Human Services.

The CHAIR: As I said, we will be looking at the Office for Women. I call on the minister to make a statement, if you wish, and to introduce your new advisers, please.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I would like to introduce Nick Ashley, our Chief Financial Officer, on my far left; Sandy Pitcher, our CEO of the Department of Human Services; and Ruth Ambler, Deputy CE, Department of Human Services. Behind me is Bel Marsden, who runs the Office of the Chief Executive; and Sanjugta Vas Dev, our wonderful Director of the Office for Women. Thank you to all of them.

The CHAIR: Do you have a statement, minister?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: No.

The CHAIR: The member for Heysen, you are still the lead speaker, I understand?

Mr TEAGUE: Yes.

The CHAIR: Do you have a statement?

Mr TEAGUE: No statement—questions.

The CHAIR: I advise the committee we have until 12:30.

Mr TEAGUE: We are focused on program 1 within the Department of Human Services agency. I am going to, therefore, Budget Paper 4, Volume 3, page 83, and I anticipate I will stay there, or thereabouts. We see the description/objective for the program, highlights 2023-24 and targets 2024-25. I turn first to dot point 5, which is:

Deliver on the South Australian allocation of the national 500 new community sector workers initiative, to support women experiencing domestic, family and sexual violence.

Do you have that?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Yes.

Mr TEAGUE: How many of those 500 new community sector workers are for SA, and what is the department doing to recruit them? When can we expect to see those workers in action in South Australia? If it is relevant or of interest to the minister to refer to the statement of income table on the following page, 84, in relation to commonwealth government revenues in that regard, then I would embrace it; otherwise, it is a question in terms of the commonwealth government revenue relevantly, the question going to number and timing for those community sector workers.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you very much to the member for the question. I think he will be pleased with the rollout of the 500 workers here. Can I first of all say thank you to Minister Rishworth and the federal government for this commitment and for their willingness to wholeheartedly collaborate and focus together on the absolutely crucial work that we must do to prevent the horrific prevalence of domestic, family and sexual violence right across the nation.

I value the fact that—amongst this terrible situation that we confront where every four days in this country a woman is killed by a man. They are absolutely devastating figures that speak to the loss of women who have lived and worked amongst us, who are loved, who are members of their community, volunteering, working, being part of community life. That loss, that brutality, is absolutely devastating, and it is something that absolutely plagues me every day. I know that is the case for everybody in this house right now and so many others around the country. As we always say, tackling that awful prevalence, that devastating fact, that loss of those precious women, requires everyone to be involved. We have to keep, and we are, finding those ways for more people to play their part.

In relation to this question, I am really pleased about the strong partnership between the federal and our state government but also the collaboration across jurisdictions. As I said, I think the member will be pleased with the rollout here. Our 2023-24 allocation of workers is 29.6 FTEs. There are already 24 new community workers who are working in South Australia as a result of that commitment.

What I can also say is that the Office for Women has executed every single one of the contracts for those workers with the various parts of the sector that will be employing those workers. As I said, we already have 24 new community workers through that partnership, which is a great step forward—and I will talk a little bit in a moment about some of the places where they are undertaking their vital work—but we have also executed every single funding contract with the sector for those workers.

I am advised that the sector, for that much smaller remaining portion of workers to be recruited, is in various stages of recruitment. I know some are just waiting for particular contracts to be signed or for workers to actually start, but we have a really positive story to tell here. It has been quite odd, actually, in South Australia, that there seems to have been talk about the rollout of the program. Every time I hear that I am slightly puzzled because we are absolutely moving forward. We have fully executed contracts with all of those service providers.

Can I say that those service providers are absolutely brilliant, as I know the member agrees. They walk, with such commitment, with women who have experienced domestic, family and sexual violence, making a difference in their lives and empowering them to walk new journeys. In other instances in the sector they are absolutely responding to the need to tackle perpetrator behaviour. In other parts of the sector they are working with women towards economic empowerment and are undertaking all sorts of education programs and all sorts of roles that make a difference in the lives of those women and those families who are experiencing domestic, family and sexual violence.

So I am really, really confident that, as the sector continues to progress with that final bit of recruitment of workers, those new workers—the ones who have already started and the ones who will start—will absolutely add to the incredible, absolutely brilliant workforce that works across the domestic, family and sexual violence sector.

Just as a matter of interest, I understand that we are one of the leading jurisdictions in this rollout. I do not have the figures from the last three hours because I have been in here, but earlier today I understood that we were second, I think just behind Tasmania. We are certainly up there in terms of this rollout, which is something that I am really proud of. When I say that, I do not take credit for that: I am really proud of the work that the sector is doing to make this happen.

What I can say is that about half of those additional frontline workers in South Australia are set to support regional and remote communities. Some of them are in our regional safety hubs, which, since coming to government, we now ensure have paid staff members. Also, various local services now have increased capacity to ensure that they can meet the needs of women experiencing violence, through services based where they live, which is so incredibly important.

Across the sector as well, in terms of that commitment, as I said, we know that there will be workers focused on rural and remote regions. We know that a portion of the workers will be focused on working with women from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds. We know that at least one of the workers or one of the FTEs will focus on working with women with disability. Almost one of the workers will work with members of the LGBTQIA+ community, and just over three of those FTEs will specifically work with Aboriginal women. So I am really pleased with the partnership, really pleased with the execution of our contracts and really pleased that the sector already has 24 new community workers up and running. I am looking forward to working alongside all of them.

Finally, I would say that the member would be aware that our government, prior to the election, committed significant funds for the establishment of both a southern domestic violence prevention and recovery hub and also for a northern multiagency hub. I am so pleased that both of those services are now up and running. It is quite a remarkable thing when you engage with the community and the sector and they tell you what is needed through working together and ensuring the investment in what they have asked for.

When you see that journey progress and come to life, it is remarkable. I am so pleased that some of those new workers will be working. Already, two are working in the southern safety hub, and two are allocated to the northern hub, with one having already started. That is really good news. I am happy to keep going if the member would like about other areas where those workers have started.

Work has already commenced with the Women's Safety Contact Program at the Women's Safety Services. Another is already working with Women's Safety Services on the personal protection app. Another is already working in the vitally important Multi Agency Protection Service. Other workers have been allocated to the Zahra Foundation, to the Salvos, to The Haven at Gawler Community House and to The Haven at Mount Barker Community Centre. In the case of those latter two workers, at Gawler and Mount Barker, they have already commenced as well, which is great news for those outer metropolitan areas as well, so really good news.

Mr TEAGUE: Budget Paper 4, Volume 3, page 84, so over the page from the target reference to the program summary table that I mentioned in the question, we see that in 2024-25, at the bottom of the table, there is an increase of 7.5 FTEs to 42.4—do you see that?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Yes.

Mr TEAGUE: That is from an actual result of 34.9 FTEs in 2023-24. Are all of those additional 7.5 FTEs frontline community workers, and are any of them the 24 FTEs that the minister just talked about in terms of those commonwealth-funded community sector workers?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: The vast majority of those workers—you would have seen the $1.5 million commitment to establish a dedicated domestic family and sexual violence royal commission response unit—that you have spoken about relate to the funding for the Royal Commission into Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence response unit.

This is a really important commitment. I think the member would understand that, when a royal commission is established, it of course is right and incredibly important that there is funding and support for the functioning of the royal commission itself. We have been very clear, the Premier and I, in our announcements around the royal commission, when we stood together with our absolutely brilliant royal commissioner, Natasha Stott Despoja, that that $3 million would be provided for that year of the royal commission to make sure the royal commission runs in the way that it needs to.

The decision we have also made that is reflected in those FTEs, and also reflected through that $1.5 million, the decision we made to also provide $1.5 million alongside that, will absolutely help with the coordination, collection and release of any government information and data to the royal commission itself. It will help to lead whole-of-government submissions, it will help coordinate the provision of any response to any interim report.

It will help with providing that historical, state-based context about the sector, the way that we have approached responses to domestic, family and sexual violence. It will make sure that we are briefing government, etc., on particular milestones and, really, really importantly, it will help us, in partnership with the sector, to make sure that the voices of those incredibly courageous survivors are heard, that they are supported, connected, enabled and empowered to provide, in very safe ways, their stories, their hopes for future change in the system as a result of this Royal Commission into Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence.

What I would just reflect on in relation to that last point is that I do not think I could quite put into words not just the number of people but the incredible conversations that I have had with women since the royal commission was announced, women who have literally approached me at shopping centres and when I was here for the What Were You Wearing rally. When I have been out in particular areas talking, people have messaged me on social media saying, 'To me, this is the opportunity to tell my story' or 'to tell my daughter's story' or 'to talk about the impact of violence that I experienced as a child'.

It is incumbent upon us, in announcing this royal commission, to make sure that we have the mechanisms for those courageous people to absolutely be heard. So a large part of that $1.5 million and those FTEs that you have referred to being reflected in the budget papers, their role will be about walking alongside those people and making sure that they are absolutely heard. At the end of the day, this royal commission is for them, it is about them, it is their voices that need to be privileged in it.

It is those survivors who need to be heard. To me, that is at the core of the royal commission. That is why we are increasing the FTEs so that they absolutely can be and, in ensuring that they are heard, that we send a message to our community at large that we are a community that will not tolerate domestic, family and sexual violence and that we will absolutely listen to and act on the voices of those survivors.

Mr TEAGUE: I will just give the opportunity for the minister to correct what might be an overstatement. There is an indication the minister has given to the committee of an additional $1.5 million. I just compare that to the second dot point under the explanation of significant movements below the table that describes additional funding for the Royal Commission into Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence response unit at $1 million. Is there a reference point for what the minister has described as another—

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: The commitment is $1.5 million, so it is $1 million in this coming financial year 2024-25 and then we have deliberately allocated the $500,000 in the second year because, of course, once we receive the findings of the royal commission, that is certainly not when the work will end but, rather, it will be a really important time for that work not just to continue but absolutely to accelerate. So we will continue to have workers there ready to help advance the recommendations. Of course, those workers, no doubt, will sit alongside—I think the Premier, the Treasurer and I have all been really clear that we will receive recommendations through the royal commission and will need further action.

Ms PRATT: Minister, thank you for expanding on what is to come. If I may, while the agency is listening, what consideration can or will be given for women who are survivors of violence where the classification is non-domestic? We rightly talk a lot about perpetrators who are known to us, but for women who experience something similar but are in a smaller cohort—I am not familiar with the terms of reference but is there opportunity for the committee to consider that element?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: That is a really good question, thank you, member for Frome. I was just having a conversation about this the other day, and I was particularly thinking about it when the person I was speaking with said, 'We're very glad that you have also encompassed sexual violence—domestic, family and sexual violence.' One of the things that I have been very clear about and which the commission needs to contemplate is the horrific rise and prevalence of sexual violence—sexual violence perpetrated by anyone, not necessarily within a family unit or by a partner or former partner—and, for many obvious reasons, that is really important.

It is also really important because we are seeing an extraordinary rise in incidents, across the spectrum of sexual violence, that do not look like what I had certainly envisaged as sexual violence in the past. When I say that, I think of things that have happened in the past, when talking with friends, etc., where, when we used to think about sexual violence, we would perhaps envisage something happening late at night in the dark. That still happens, and it is awful, and it will be contemplated, of course.

What we also see now are these new ways of perpetrating sexual violence. Very topical at the moment has been the rise of AI, deepfakes, online harassment and sexual abuse, all of which is also sexual violence. It is driven in part, not entirely, by this growing online rallying call to misogyny. I talk about the Andrew Tates of the world who, as fast as we are educating young men through respectful relationship programs, they are literally going as fast as they possibly can to take those young men on a different path. Again, that all sits in that continuum of sexual violence.

I have been very clear and the Premier has been very clear that that whole awful newer world of types of sexual violence absolutely needs to be thoroughly explored. It worries me greatly, and I think that—and I say this about jurisdictions around the world that are doing all sorts of things—we have to do this faster and better because those who are against us are accelerating their efforts and undoing every piece of good work.

Ms PRATT: If I could push the minister further on my question, that is: will you undertake to guide or influence the royal commission to consider what non-domestic violence looks like or how it is interpreted? I think we are seeing new modern interpretations of that beyond what might be a different version of sexual violence, but non-sexual violence—so non-domestic violence against women where the person is not intimately known to them but the impacts are the same, and where this institution of parliamentarians is undertaking training through research and world-leading evidence that points to the level of violence through social media. I would ask the minister to influence the royal commission and the terms of reference that are coming for them to expand their understanding and their terms of reference beyond domestic violence to non-domestic and beyond sexual to have a better interpretation of what that looks like.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you and I really appreciate the sentiment with which you asked that question. I think what I will undertake to do is to pass exactly what you have said on to the royal commissioner to contemplate. I do not think I need to say to anyone in here how brilliant she is and that she will contemplate that in a fulsome way, so I can do that.

In terms of changing the terms of reference, etc., it is my understanding that probably doing that is not possible because they are terms of reference that, as you would know, the Governor signs off on, etc. But I say this in a general way because come 1 July it is the royal commissioner who will have to run the royal commission and, rightly so, who will have that level of independence, so I will make sure I pass this on before then. I have no doubt that, with the calibre of our royal commissioner, she will contemplate what you have said.

In terms of changing the terms of reference, I do not think she can. I am really happy to provide you with a copy of the terms of reference. I think the very first paragraph of the terms of reference, which I will just read to you, will help. It states:

…require and authorise you to inquire into:

a. How South Australia can facilitate widespread change in the underlying social drivers of domestic, family and sexual violence by addressing the attitudes and systems that drive all forms of domestic, family and sexual violence, and particularly violence against women and children, to stop it before it starts...

That is a reasonably broad scope. That is just the first point. I will just point that out to you. As I said, I am sure I can provide you with the terms of reference and I will pass that on to the royal commissioner. I cannot speak for her, but I daresay she will also be inviting conversations far and wide to continue to explore exactly the kind of issues that she gets. We are doing this. We have had to have a particular focus, rightly so, as all royal commissions do, but I think in a very general sense that the sentiment from all of us would be that anything that is connected, anything that we can explore that helps to better understand any gaps, etc., we want to do. So I will pass that on and I am sure there will be more opportunities for you to speak about that too.

Mr TEAGUE: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 3, page 84 and the program summary table. I appreciate the minister expanding in the answer just now in relation to the FTEs that are connected to the royal commission and response unit. In terms of, therefore, the FTEs the minister referred to in response to my previous question in relation to the new community sector workers of the national 500, the allocation of 29.6 FTEs for 2023-24, 24 I think the minister had indicated were on deck. Do we take it that those FTEs are not reflected in the table?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Yes.

Mr TEAGUE: The question then goes to commonwealth government revenues. There are two questions perhaps. The first is the minister might explain the disparity between the commonwealth government revenues budgeted amount, which appears anomalous, in 2023-24 at $3.6 million, against the estimated result of $10.3 million and, in that context, for both 2023-24 and the current year, to what extent, if any, is commonwealth funding for those workers reflected in the commonwealth government revenues that we see in the program summary?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I hope I have your question right. In relation to the first part of your question in terms of the increase in commonwealth government revenues year to year from 2022-23 to 2023-24—

Mr TEAGUE: It is a decrease.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Sorry, the other way around, yes. Basically, the national partnership is brilliant in terms of releasing significant commonwealth government funds alongside our state government funds to focus on the prevention of domestic, family and sexual violence. As the member could appreciate, it is a huge and complex document, which I know the previous government was also involved in as we are, rightly, now. As the member could also appreciate, there is different input from each jurisdiction and an enormous multitude of programs that are funded through the national partnership or through shared funding between state and the federal government.

What I can say is that result that you referred to relates to an extension of the national partnership—the responses and particular programs for that particular year. If you actually look over the past few years, including the time when you were in government, as I said, there are many, many programs that come through the national partnership and they are not all neat in terms of when they commence and when they end and when a program extends or comes out of the next payment, etc. So that is the reason for that difference there that you speak about.

Mr TEAGUE: And in relation to the FTEs for 2024-25?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Sorry, can you please ask that question again?

Mr TEAGUE: The FTEs for 2024-25 out of the 500 new community sector workers initiative.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Yes. What is the question?

Mr TEAGUE: How many are allocated? If 29.6 is the 2023-24 number, of which we have 24 FTEs, perhaps you might take the opportunity to also indicate if there is a trajectory towards filling the balance and is the allocation for 2024-25 any different?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: The first point is that, and this may answer the question entirely, none of the workers are our workers or reflected in that way because they are employed by the community sector, so they are not actually government employees. I am sorry, I am just not understanding your question. You are asking about whether we will fill the rest of our allocation for this year and also if we will then fulfil any further allocation in the following year?

Mr TEAGUE: Almost, and what is the allocation for 2024-25?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Okay, 2024-25 is 36.8 total. So the first year, the year we are in now, is 29.6, and the total is 36.8.

Mr TEAGUE: So there is an additional 7.2 for this year?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: For the coming financial year. It is not for the financial year we are in, but for the coming financial year.

Mr TEAGUE: The financial year that is the subject of the state budget that we are here dealing with in estimates.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you so much for that explanation, I really appreciate it. I was not sure.

Mr TEAGUE: When I say 'this financial year', I mean the one that we are bound to analyse. I am not endeavouring to explain or score a point, I am just being clear about it. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 3, page 83. At about point 3 on the page we have highlights 2023-24—

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: The equality bill?

Mr TEAGUE: Highlights 2023-24 is the heading for a section with a series of dot points underneath it. There is a highlight—I think it is the fourth of the dot points—that says, 'Supported the Gender Pay Gap Taskforce to develop an Interim Report.' My question is: when can the final report be expected? That might be enough for the time being; if there is a brief answer I might have some questions to follow.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Broadly, first of all, as the committee would be aware, a range of factors affect women's economic security, meaning that, sadly, it is more likely that over the course of a woman's lifetime she will earn less than her male counterparts, she will retire with less superannuation and other retirement savings, and she will have less opportunity to progress in her career in particular industries. As a result of all those factors, women remain more likely than their male counterparts to end their final years living in poverty.

To tackle this we established the South Australian Gender Pay Gap Taskforce, not to do more research about the reasons for the gender pay gap—that is well advanced and extensively understood—but rather it was established to really understand, in the South Australian context, what contributes to the gender pay gap here in this state and also to reflect on the South Australian context in terms of our own particular workforce needs. We are on the cusp of incredible growth in particular industries, and we also continue to have needs across the human and health services industries.

We appointed a remarkable group of people, absolute leaders in their fields in business, in community organisations, in unions. Those members include: Jodeen Carney, our Commissioner for Equal Opportunity; Erma Ranieri, the Commissioner for Public Sector Employment; Professor Carol Kulik, Bradley Distinguished Professor at the University of South Australia and Centre for Workplace Excellence; Ross Womersley, the Chief Executive Officer of SACOSS; Abbey Kendell, Director of the Working Women's Centre; and Matthew O'Callaghan, Workplace Relations Consultant and former senior deputy president of the Fair Work Commission—and I must say that when I first saw him in the Gender Pay Gap Taskforce I did have to speak with him about how terrified I was of him 20 years ago when I first appeared in the then Industrial Relations Commission.

There is Natasha Brown, the General Secretary of the PSA; Andrew Kay, Chief Executive of Business SA; Jane Pickering, Chief Executive of Eldercare; and Olive Bennell, Chief Executive Officer of Nunga Mi:Minar in the domestic violence sector. There is also Sarah Andrews, the member for Gibson, who chairs that task force and who has an extraordinary background in advocacy for workers and a deep understanding of the issues that particularly impact women at work. The taskforce is doing some excellent work, and I anticipate receiving their final report later this year.

The CHAIR: We have about 90 seconds, member for Heysen. I do not know if you could squeeze a question and an answer in there—sorry, 60 seconds.

Mr TEAGUE: I think the short point was later this year.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Yes.

Mr TEAGUE: What is South Australia's gender pay gap in 2023-24?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: The gender pay gap is 9.2 per cent.

Mr TEAGUE: I think the commonwealth government's Workplace Gender Equality Agency puts South Australia's gender pay gap at 7.8 per cent for 2023. Is that data then indicating a deterioration? Is the minister satisfied with what the data tells us?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I have spent my life being dissatisfied with the gender pay gap, let me tell you, and fighting against it, and I am really pleased to be in a position where I can institute a gender pay gap task force. I feel really thankful, actually. Those members that I spoke about before, I am sure the member would not argue, are absolute leaders in their field. I have a lot of faith in their work and the recommendations that they will come up with, which of course I will pay very close attention to as I continue my rage against the gender pay gap and my work towards eradicating it.

I was really intrigued, actually, when WGEA did release their data, I think in February or March this year, and for the first time the gender pay gaps of 5,000 employers around the country were revealed, including, I think, about 300 employers in South Australia. It was a very interesting set of discussions that I had in various places about the purported reasons why those gender pay gaps may exist.

Also, what was really pleasing in those discussions was that each of the people I have spoken with—leaders in business, leaders in advocacy organisations and in unions—are very understanding of the need to tackle it and very focused on working towards doing so.

The CHAIR: I want to thank you, minister, and I want to thank your advisers for the important work they are doing. I declare the examination of the portfolio of the Office for Women completed. The proposed payments for the Department of Human Services will continue on Monday 24 June.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you very much to all the members, as well as all of these excellent leaders and all of my staff, but also to everybody who has been here for the committee.

Sitting suspended from 12:31 to 13:30.