Estimates Committee B: Friday, June 30, 2023

Department of Human Services, $963,281,000

Administered Items for the Department of Human Services, $303, 685,000


Mrs Hurn substituted for Mr McBride.


Hon. K.A. Hildyard, Minister for Child Protection, Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence, Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing.

Departmental Advisers:

Ms R. Ambler, Acting Chief Executive, Department of Human Services.

Mr D. Green, Acting Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Business Services, Department of Human Services.

Ms A. Reid, Executive Director, Community and Family Services, Department of Human Services.

Ms S. Kuhadas, Acting Director, Office for Women, Department of Human Services.

Mr G. Myers, Principal Project Officer, Office of the Chief Executive and Governance, Department of Human Services.

The CHAIR: The portfolio is Office for Women. The minister appearing is the Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence. I advise that the proposed payments are open for examination. I call upon the minister to make an opening statement, if she so wishes.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I want to start this session by acknowledging the role that so many Aboriginal women leaders across South Australia play in preventing and helping to end domestic, family and sexual violence, and in promoting Aboriginal women's participation and leadership, through generously sharing their 65,000-plus years of wisdom and culture and through often tireless advocacy, sometimes advocacy that spans years, decades, lifetimes, and sometimes goes across generations. I think we are all here today stronger because of the efforts of countless incredibly strong Aboriginal women and I certainly lean on the knowledge and contributions of many Aboriginal women colleagues and companions.

I am really proud to appear before this committee as the Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence and I am very proud and determined every single day to help advance girls and women and to help us to create a state in which your agenda has no bearing on your ability to pursue any path that you choose.

Today, I have with me Ruth Ambler, Acting Chief Executive, Department of Human Services; Alex Reid, Executive Director, Community and Family Services, in the department; Daniel Green, Acting Chief Financial Officer, for the department; Shameeta Kuhadas, Acting Director, Office for Women, in the department; and Greg Myers, Principal Project Officer, Office of the Chief Executive and governance.

Our state profoundly reshaped our democracy in a way that reverberated right across the globe 129 years ago when a group of fierce activist women successfully fought for the right for women to vote and to stand for parliament, an achievement that meant that we were the first place in the world where those rights could be exercised. I want our state to continue to be a leader in gender equality; as I said, a place in which your gender has no bearing on your ability to be anything that you want to be.

In the past 12 months, our government has steadfastly advanced our commitment to working toward achieving gender equality in South Australia and has fulfilled a number of key election commitments that champion and empower women and girls. Many of these commitments are outlined in our women's budget statement. The statement reflects that progressing women's equality and safety is a responsibility that we can encourage our whole community to take, and a responsibility across government.

Our commitments are vast. They range from a comprehensive plan to advance equality in leadership, to excellent support for women in business, to health and important services to keep women and children safe and to deal with perpetrators of domestic violence. Our government recognises that our economy and our community are strongest when they are inclusive and fair and enable equality of opportunity for everyone to participate and thrive.

Our ambition is further and comprehensively encapsulated in the women's equality blueprint, which I was really pleased to launch today. The blueprint focuses on four core priority areas: safety and security, leadership and participation, economic wellbeing, and health. The blueprint sets out a vision for our state to work towards being a fair and inclusive state; again, where everyone can equally and actively participate.

Equality is a human right. Achieving equality requires collective, concerted, strategic effort. It requires us to address the different, and sometimes compounding, forms of intersectional disadvantage and discrimination that women and girls can experience. To advance the interests, safety and wellbeing of women and girls, our vision—as outlined in the statement and in the blueprint—promotes equality, respectful relationships and economic wellbeing, as well as programs to respond to domestic, family and sexual violence.

I am really proud of the steps we have taken as a government over the last 16 months to improve women's safety, wellbeing and equality. I look forward to continuing to drive legislative and social reform to support and empower women and girls, and to working with the many dedicated women in the House of Assembly—a number of them are here today—on both sides of the chamber and also with our broader community to achieve our vision of making South Australia a fair and inclusive state. I look forward to speaking with you further today about these initiatives, and I welcome questions.

The CHAIR: Opening statement, or just questions?

Mr TEAGUE: Perhaps by way of background to getting on with a question about dedicated beds in relation to the domestic and family violence program. We know that in the lead-up to the 2018 election, the Marshall Liberal team at that point committed to establishing 40 specific bed places for families experiencing domestic and family violence, and on coming to government, following consultation with the specialised domestic and family violence service sector, changed this to 31 beds for victim families and nine for perpetrators to enable them to be removed from the family home.

The 40 beds were funded through the life of the Marshall Liberal government. The program was evaluated in 2021 and it was found to be very successful in providing better outcomes for families while saving funding from emergency accommodation hotel-motel programs. In the election campaign the then Liberal government announced that we would be extending this program from the existing 40 beds to 100 beds.

The new government has announced a time extension of the 40 beds—and we see that at Budget Paper 5, page 75, in the top table, the extension of those beds—but not the extension from 40 to 100, which had been approved and funded for the $1.1 million necessary, and it has disappeared therefore from the budget papers.

By reference to Budget Paper 4, Volume 3, page 88, noting that background and noting that we see an extension of the former Liberal government's 40 crisis bed initiative, and knowing that the former government was in the process of extending that crisis accommodation from 40 to 100 beds, for which the $1.1 million per annum would have been funded out of the 10-year $20 million Homelessness Prevention Fund, why has the new government cut those important additional domestic violence beds?

Can the minister outline what the demand is for crisis accommodation? Has the demand for the emergency accommodation program exceeded supply; in other words, given the background, are women escaping violence and crisis being housed in motels and hotels?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I think I have all your questions in that statement. I am very happy to talk about our commitments in domestic violence in a range of ways, both in terms of prevention, access to supports, shifting perceptions about attitudes to women that can lead to disrespect and violence, and also to speak about beds. What I will say absolutely categorically is that no beds have been cut. That is a very strange and incorrect assertion to make.

Just to go back a step, what I will speak about first of all is that, in working as I have done for many years in the domestic violence prevention response and recovery space, there are a number of elements to that work that go into making sure that we give women the best opportunity to live their lives safely and free from violence and abuse and that go to engaging the community in prevention, to reducing the experience of domestic violence by women.

Across that suite of programs there are a range of things that you need to do in terms of provision of supports for that response and also in recovery to help move people out of that cycle. What I can say, and again I am a little bit confused because there were a lot of questions in there so I will try to get to what I think the questions were, is that whenever you are contemplating a response—and I have made the point about absolutely making sure that we have crisis accommodation beds available, and I will come back to some specifics about that—the really important thing about any domestic violence strategy is that it is multipronged and focuses, as does the new national plan, on all of those elements of prevention, intervention, response and recovery.

If you are to be successful in doing all that you can to begin to prevent and begin to eradicate domestic violence, you have to think about your focus across those four areas. I was really proud in October last year to sign up to the new national plan and I know that the former government also signed up to previous iterations of that national plan. I mention that because it is really important that we focus nationally on those areas and align every effort to make change.

At a state level we are also working across those four areas and as our blueprint articulates, and as I spoke about just this morning and yesterday morning on the radio and as our statement sets out, we have a comprehensive plan in those areas. The first thing I will talk about is our legislative program.

Mr TEAGUE: Why is there no reference to the 100 beds?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I will come to that. You did ask a lot of things in your statement.

Mr TEAGUE: There were a couple of questions.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: You asked many questions. I am just trying to help you to understand the breadth of issues that you cover if you are to have a sophisticated response to domestic violence, because of course you have—

Mr TEAGUE: Will the government deliver the 100 beds?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: What I can tell you is that we will deliver a whole lot more than 100 beds. I can go through the list in a moment for you, so do not worry; I will come to that. I will articulate the significantly higher number of those beds. I will talk you through where each of those are. I will come to that, but what is really important—

Mr TEAGUE: Of the nine perpetrator beds, how many of those are being used; do we know?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: If I can continue—if the question was: are they continuing, then yes, they are. I have been really clear that nothing is changing; in fact, we are increasing—

Mr TEAGUE: Do we know how many are being used?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —across the suite of beds. I will come back to that, but what is really important to understand is that for a very long time I have worked alongside the domestic violence sector, and what has consistently been said to me and what I have seen for myself is that it is incredibly important that, when a woman is at serious risk, when she is in acute crisis, we need to have beds, as you have spoken about. I will come back to speaking with you about the range of beds available that we have, which does exceed the number you spoke about. We need to have those crisis responses there. In saying that, I want to take a moment to thank the incredible workers who work in that DV—

The CHAIR: If you just give me a minute, minister, the member for Torrens is discharged and replaced by the member for Elizabeth.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you to the member for Torrens.


Mr Odenwalder substituted for Ms Wortley.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I offer my gratitude to those incredible workers in the domestic violence crisis service setting, women like Maria Hagias, who is the CEO of Women's Safety Services, and a number of incredible workers in that space. What they have said to me over many years is that, absolutely, we need to have those beds and other counselling supports available when there is that acute crisis.

What you also need to do is make sure that you have significant work being undertaken at the earliest opportunity in the preventative space and also that you have work that is undertaken in that space where a woman might not be at the point of being in that place where she is fleeing her home and seeking one of those beds but where perhaps there are some early warning signs that she wants to discuss with someone. The other area you have to focus on is recovery. What do you do to make sure that the cycle changes, that women recover once they move away from those crisis settings?

There are a range of things we are doing across all those areas. First of all, in the preventative space, right now we are running a significant campaign to raise awareness about coercive control, an insidious form of domestic abuse, which shockingly is prevalent in 99 per cent of domestic violence homicides. That is a shocking number. In 99 per cent of domestic violence homicides, in the relationship that preceded that shocking, tragic final act there was an element of coercive control.

In that prevention space, one of the things we are doing is campaigning to raise awareness about coercive control—what it is. Our understanding of domestic violence as a community does need to change if we are to effectively prevent it so that there is an understanding that domestic violence is not just constituted through acts of physical violence but rather also constituted through psychological, emotional and financial abuse.

It is through insidious ways that a perpetrator sets out to control a person and take away over time their sense of self-worth and their autonomy. So that is one of the things we are doing in the preventative space. We are raising awareness about that so more people recognise those signs, more people see those signs and feel confident to seek help, to understand that that is what is happening for them, and also so more people, through that awareness raising, understand what those signs are and can actually intervene and provide support when they see a loved one experiencing it. So that is one of the elements of our work around prevention.

Another thing I am really excited to share with the committee is that during and beyond the FIFA Women's World Cup we are funding the Office for Women to work closely with sport to run out a series of education programs in football and other sporting clubs about what domestic violence prevention looks like, about what respect for women looks like. That is another one of our preventative measures. I will not go into detail but, as I spoke about in our blueprint, there is also a comprehensive suite of policies that go to improving women's economic wellbeing.

Mr TEAGUE: Will you at least take the question on notice?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Economic wellbeing is important in both the preventative space and the recovery space because, if you can ensure women have financial autonomy, they are able to make choices about their particular living circumstances but also they are able to be empowered as they go through that recovery process. Those are some of the preventative measures. As I said, in terms of responses and crisis responses, the beds and options we are providing far exceed the numbers that the shadow minister spoke about.

To give you a snapshot of some of those, there are 398 family and domestic violence crisis properties available in South Australia. There are 84 housing crisis options for domestic and family violence; they are in core and cluster properties that provide that more intensive support during crisis. There are 110 other supported housing properties, so there is a particular level of support specifically for people experiencing family and domestic violence. There are 134 transitional housing properties specifically allocated for domestic violence. If you think about what I spoke about, there is that response, those crisis properties to provide intense support, but as people move into that recovery phase there are those 134 transitional housing properties as well.

Mr TEAGUE: Of the nine trial perpetrator beds, how many are being used?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: They are all still being used. They are all still there.

Mr TEAGUE: All of them?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: What I would say to the shadow minister, as anybody who has worked in and around or in support of domestic violence organisations would know, is right now at this minute I can say that, yes, in a general sense they are all being used, but I could not tell you if an hour ago somebody has reached a particular point in their journey where they are moving on to—

Mr TEAGUE: If it is successful, at what point might it be made permanent?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: If I can just finish, because you wanted the list of properties—

Mr TEAGUE: I asked very specific questions, actually.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I am giving you the list. You asked about the numbers and I am giving you the numbers. I am not quite sure why giving you the numbers would not be acceptable. On top of those 84 housing options there are another 16 properties for domestic and family violence crisis accommodation. The perpetrator beds we just spoke about. Also, we have ring-fenced another 45 public housing properties specifically to cater for women who are experiencing domestic violence, so that is a new commitment on top of the other commitments I have just spoken about.

The thing to understand as well is that, on coming to government, I was personally incredibly shocked that the former government had cut $2 million from Catherine House, and one of the things we have done is restore that funding to Catherine House.

Mr TEAGUE: Will the trial be made permanent?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: This goes directly to your question, because I am sure you were aware, when your former government cut funding, that Catherine House provides emergency and other types of accommodation to women in crisis. Sadly, every time I speak with workers and the CEO and board members at Catherine House, whilst it provides accommodation for a range of issues that women may be experiencing, what those workers will always say is that, sadly and tragically, so many of the women there are there because they are experiencing domestic violence.

There may be other issues that they are also grappling with, but they are also there so often because of their experience of domestic violence, so I am so very glad that we have restored that funding to Catherine House. To come back to one of your questions in that suite of questions, I am really glad that we are exceeding the numbers you spoke about in terms of beds for those people experiencing domestic violence.

Sorry, it was a $1.2 million cut that we gave back. I misrepresented your significant cut in terms of the dollar figure to Catherine House, but the points I made about Catherine House remain in terms of that also restoring—beyond what was cut by the former government—accommodation options for women experiencing domestic violence. I am really proud of our record in this regard.

What I would say to the shadow minister is that I have spoken so many times in the other place about my relentless, lifelong passion to do what I can to prevent and end domestic violence, and to support those who experience it. Whilst I say I am proud of our efforts, until there are no women who require crisis accommodation or other sorts of housing as a result of domestic violence, I certainly will not stop working, and our government will not stop working towards that. As I said, we have a comprehensive suite of policies to advance, and that we are advancing, in that regard.

Mr TEAGUE: I am still at page 88 of Volume 3 and the table setting out the program summary. We see there grants and subsidies and then a couple of lines below that, total expenses. Can the minister explain why the quite substantial—I do not know how to characterise it. There is a budget for 2022-23 for grants and subsidies of $18.8 million, and we see the result is $10.4 million. That is, in turn, setting out a fairly substantial cut to grants and subsidies from 2022-23 to 2023-24. As we look at total expenses, we see that translating in the headline cut to the budget, 2022-23 to 2023-24, in terms of expenses.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Just to be absolutely crystal clear, because I do not want this to be misrepresented, there is absolutely no cut whatsoever, absolutely not. In fact, we will be seeing more money flowing into this area. The reason for that particular set of figures is since we have come to government there are two significant things that have happened in terms of federal money.

The shadow minister might remember that when the federal government was elected in May last year, their first budget was in October 2022, and their second budget was in May 2023. At each of those times there was both a renegotiation around the national partnership money that comes through for domestic and family violence measures, and there was the new plan that was signed, as I said, in October 2022, so there have been two budgets and two significant commitments made.

Also in amongst that, you might remember the federal government's commitment to 500 domestic violence workers, and also additional funds for particular perpetrator responses. We are in the midst of discussions about the extensions to that partnership, which means that there is absolutely no question about money being in our budget for domestic violence prevention response, intervention and recovery. We are in negotiation about the parameters around the particular program extensions, etc., through that partnership approach.

I am really proud of the amounts of funding that have and will continue to come into this space, and I am also really proud of our government's investment in this space. One thing that was really difficult was when, as a shadow minister, I asked the previous Minister for Women—obviously, now I am saying this to you as the shadow minister for women or shadow minister for domestic violence—

Mr TEAGUE: Prevention of domestic and family violence.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: One thing I raised at that time was the lack of any ongoing funding for domestic violence prevention hubs. What I can highlight to the shadow minister is that we have now ensured that partnership funding is allocated to ensure there is a paid staff member in every single one of those 10 regional safety hubs.

Further, we have invested significant funding into the establishment of a southern domestic violence prevention, recovery and community awareness raising hub. I have just made an announcement this morning that I am really pleased to share about that particular funding commitment, which is that the southern community justice services have indicated their intention to convene—to run—the hub in the south, which is, really importantly, again going to my earlier comments about domestic violence prevention and recovery being a responsibility for everybody across government and also for our community and for the need to co-locate services for women to access.

I am really pleased that both Cedar Health Service and the Yarrow Place Rape and Sexual Assault Service will now also have a presence in the south, alongside other workers in that hub. I am really proud of our investment. I will certainly keep the other house updated as that negotiation around the extension of the partnership concludes.

Mr TEAGUE: I am just over the page at page 87. While I do not take them as in any particular order, high on the list is the establishment of a gender pay gap task force. South Australia had the lowest gender pay gap in the nation in 2021 and 2022 under the former government and, while the national gender pay gap has narrowed, South Australia's has become wider.

To what does the minister attribute the worsening of the gender pay gap on her watch? The data to which I refer in that regard is the Workplace Gender Equality Agency's statement that has set out the gender pay gap. I am sure the minister is familiar with the data. In 2021, South Australia was 7.1 per cent, against the national 13.4. In 2022, it was 7.4 per cent, against the national 14.1. In 2023, the gap has risen to 7.8 in South Australia.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Sorry, what is your question?

Mr TEAGUE: To what do you attribute the worsening of the gender pay gap on your watch?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I would love to talk about our Gender Pay Gap Taskforce and our absolutely significant focus on gender equality here in our parliament, in workplaces, in sport, in community life and in business. I can point to a number of ways that we are tackling women's economic participation and women's economic equality.

I will draw your attention to a couple of things before I get to the Gender Pay Gap Taskforce, which has an incredible group of people on it. There are a couple of pieces of legislation that we have recently progressed through the house, one of those being the passing of legislation to enshrine 15 days of paid domestic violence leave in the Fair Work Act, meaning that women who experience domestic violence and who work in South Australia can absolutely stay connected to their workplace, to their income, to their financial security, should they be experiencing domestic violence, and that there is a supportive environment and understanding for them to do that in.

Secondly, we recently passed a bill to enshrine discrimination relating to a person experiencing domestic violence as a ground of discrimination in the Equal Opportunity Act. The reason that is important is that over a number of years I moved that bill twice—twice—from opposition, and twice when I spoke about that bill I spoke about the fact that when women are disconnected from their workplace when they are experiencing domestic violence that absolutely impacts their financial security, their economic autonomy and their ability to make choices with that financial security. We recently passed that legislation, which is really important in terms of connecting women and keeping them connected to their workplace and their income.

The other thing I would draw the member's attention to—and it is outlined in our statement and also in our blueprint that has been released—is our $4 million Women in Business package. Again, as I am sure all members here are aware, we want to make sure that women are mentored, supported, have access to training—what they need to ensure they are successful in their businesses, which of course will also contribute to making sure they have that ability to have financial security and economic independence.

One of the other things I have indicated both in the statement and in the blueprint and prior to the election that we were working on is the establishment of an equality bill, and the equality bill will also—

Mr TEAGUE: Because the national figure has come down during that time, while the South Australian figure has gone up.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: The equality bill will also contribute—

Mr TEAGUE: Is the task force looking at that particularly?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —to making sure that across the public sector and with encouragement to the private sector we look at how we can make sure there is equality of opportunity in terms of advancement to leadership positions, because, again, making sure that we have clear strategies to enable women to take up those positions will of course help in enabling women to experience that economic security, wellbeing and independence. So those are a number of clear strategies that we are engaging in to improve women's economic independence and wellbeing.

In terms of the Gender Pay Gap Taskforce, I was really proud about all of the eminent South Australians who have agreed to be on that task force and to work with us to tackle any South Australian factors in terms of the industrial settings, in terms of casualisation in the workplace, whatever it might be in the particular South Australian context that needs to be addressed to improve women's economic wellbeing.

I will just let you know who is on the task force. What I will say is that they are working diligently—very hard—to come up with clear recommendations. They have been given a time-limited task to come up with clear recommendations about the gender pay gap specifically in the South Australian context.

Before I come back to that point, I will let you know who is on there: it is chaired by the Hon. Irene Pnevmatikos, member of this house; Jodeen Carney, the Commissioner for Equal Opportunity, is a member; as is Erma Ranieri, the Commissioner for Public Sector Employment; Professor Carol Kulik, Bradley Distinguished Professor at the University of South Australia's Centre for Workplace Excellence; Dr Jennifer Purdie, the Asset President of BHP's Olympic Dam; Ross Womersley, Chief Executive of the South Australian Council of Social Service; Abbey Kendall, Director of the Working Women's Centre; Matthew O'Callaghan, Workplace Relations Consultant and former Senior Deputy President of the Fair Work Commission.

I was very pleased that Matthew agreed to be on the commission. I remember many times appearing in front of him in the Industrial Relations Commission as a young industrial officer, being slightly terrified but always very willing to listen to his very wise counsel about all matters to do with pay, industrial relations, negotiations, etc.

Natasha Brown is on there. She is the General Secretary of the Public Service Association. Andrew Kay, Chief Executive Officer of Business SA, is a member; Jane Pickering, Chief Executive of Eldercare Australia; and Olive Bennell, Chief Executive Officer of Nunga Mi:Minar, is there. Our Director of the Office for Women, Sanjugta Vas Dev, is also an ex officio member, and the Office for Women is providing that support to the task force.

I anticipate, and it is certainly my expectation, that the task force recommendations will result in a really clear action plan for the South Australian government that takes account of the sectors that we currently have, but also rightly takes account of the sectors that our government has been very clear that we wish to grow in South Australia, and that is the point I wanted to come back to.

There have been incredibly significant, brilliant announcements by our Premier and Deputy Premier about the growth of particular industries for our state. One thing that as a government we are turning our minds to, and certainly I am turning my mind to as the Minister for Women in partnership with Minister Boyer, Minister for Skills and Innovation, is how can we make sure that women equally and actively participate in those industries at every level in the way that they choose to.

Those new industries, those emerging industries, those significant industries that will grow here in South Australia provide us with an incredible opportunity to make sure that strategically we work through, and with educational institutions, with the various government and private sector organisations that will grow those industries, that we work with them to make sure that the place of women in those industries is secure. I think that represents such an opportunity for our state, both in terms of the equal active inclusion of women at every level of those positions, but also I think it represents a huge opportunity.

Nationally, we know that there are significant issues facing every state and territory about the need for workforce development and skills development, and I think this represents an opportunity for us to make sure that we are contemplating those challenges with a really clear strategy to engage women to fill those positions.

I want to mention that, connected to that (again on that theme), advancing gender equality is an across-government responsibility. Our work in the early years sector is really important, and this again is mentioned in both our statement and in our blueprint for gender equality because if you can actually make sure that women, who are still predominantly taking up those caring responsibilities, are able to feel comfortable about the support that they have for the care of their children, alongside engaging them in those new industries and providing that education, we have this opportunity across government to get that right, and that is a really exciting opportunity that we have—

The CHAIR: I am very mindful of the time, and I want to give the opposition one more question.

Mr TEAGUE: Just one more question. I am content for the minister to take it on notice, if necessary. On page 87, highlights of 2022-23, one of which is the evaluation of initiatives funded under the National Partnership on Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence Responses 2021-23, can the minister provide a full list of the initiatives that were funded under the partnership agreement? Can the minister advise what is the status of the evaluation, and will it be made public? What likelihood is there of the extension of services and programs after the evaluation? Will there be further funding from the state or under a further national partnership? What commonwealth government revenues are yet to be expended?

The CHAIR: Could you ask that that be taken on notice? If you could do that—

Mr TEAGUE: I am happy to have that taken on notice.

The CHAIR: —I think that would help the situation.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I think I can probably answer that really quickly. ANROWS, Australia's National Research Organisation for Women's Safety, is being funded to conduct that evaluation and it will evaluate eight of the separate initiatives—just eight. There are others of course that have been funded under the national partnership. That evaluation process, that contracting of them, requires them to work with the Office for Women on that evaluation and outcomes framework.

Mr TEAGUE: And the list of initiatives might be taken on notice.

The CHAIR: Okay, and you can take the rest on notice.

Mr TEAGUE: Will the minister take that list on notice?

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Should we start reading them?

Mr TEAGUE: No, you are going to take it on notice.

The CHAIR: No, take it on notice.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I do not need to. I think I have answered the question.

Mr TEAGUE: No, you have not answered the question.

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I have answered the question. You asked about the evaluation framework. ANROWS is conducting—

Mr TEAGUE: No, I asked: will the minister provide a full list of initiatives?

The CHAIR: Can you just ask that it be taken on notice because we are over time. If you want to ask that?

Mr TEAGUE: Yes. Will minister take those questions on notice?

The CHAIR: Taken on notice, okay. Good. The time allotted having expired—

The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: I think I have already answered it.

Mr ODENWALDER: If she says she has answered it, she has answered it.

The CHAIR: —I declare the examination of the portfolio of the Office for Women completed. The examination of the proposed payments for the Department of Human Services and Administered Items for the Department of Human Services are now complete.

Sitting suspended from 13:02 to 14:00.