Defence SA, $14,880,000

Minister:

Hon. S.S. Marshall, Premier.

Departmental Advisers:

Mr R. Price, Chief Executive, Defence SA.

Mr P. Murdock, Manager, Finance, Defence SA.

The CHAIR: We now move to the Defence SA portfolio. The minister appearing is the Premier. Premier, would you like to make an opening statement and/or introduce your advisers, please?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I would certainly like to introduce my advisers. Richard Price is the Chief Executive of Defence SA and also the South Australian Space Industry Centre and Mr Peter Murdock is the chief financial officer of Defence SA.

I must say that we are all very excited within Defence SA today because we have the 10^th Australian Space Forum on, and so there are a very large number of people who are today participating in that 10^th forum virtually because of our restrictions. Both Richard Price and I have been involved in that conference early this morning, but of course interrupted because of estimates today, and I am happy to answer any questions that might come forward.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I would like to thank the Defence SA staff for being here as well. What is the latest advice that the Premier has received from the federal government regarding the future of the ASC's contract at Osborne to the full cycle docking work on the Collins class submarines?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Nothing has changed since our last update.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: When was your last update?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: We have been providing commentary on this for an extended period of time since it was first raised in the media that there was a potential for the full cycle docking operation to move from ASC here in South Australia to ASC over in Western Australia. This is ultimately going to be a decision of the NSC, a subcommittee of the federal government's cabinet, not the national cabinet but the federal cabinet.

It was widely speculated that this decision would have been decided last year, or if not very early this year, but no decision on that has been made. We have obviously been in extensive discussions with the key members of the NSC and the Prime Minister himself with regard to the capability and the capacity we have here in South Australia.

I am still 100 per cent convinced that we have the very best place in the nation to provide that ongoing full cycle docking operation. We have done it very successfully here in South Australia. There are very good reasons why it should continue into the future, which I am happy outline to the committee, but I am happy also to take further questions from the leader.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: When was the last time you advocated to the Prime Minister for this work to remain in South Australia?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I do not have the exact date. Certainly, it has been very recently. What I can say is that there have been changes on the NSC very recently with the Hon. Mathias Cormann, who was previously on the NSC. As the Minister for Finance, he was the shareholder, if you like, of the ASC. That has recently changed and now the Hon. Simon Birmingham, a South Australian senator, is both the Minister for Finance and the shareholder of the ASC. Of course, now he is also on the NSC.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Several weeks ago, the federal defence minister refused to commit to making that decision this side of the federal election, which of course raises the possibility that we will not have a decision until even mid-2022, if not later theoretically. Will you use your special relationship with the Prime Minister to ensure a decision is made before the next state or federal election?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: These decisions are made in the best interests of the nation. The NSC has it on its agenda, and I think it will make that determination when it has all the information that it requires. Obviously, the NSC has been very concerned about other matters recently, most notably but not completely around the issue of COVID-19 but also cybersecurity, so I am sure they will make a decision.

What I will say is that South Australia has an excellent facility at Osborne where they have been doing full cycle docking for an extended period of time. It is not simple work. Mid-cycle docking, as you would be aware, moved to Western Australia under the term of the previous Labor government. That was a decision taken by the federal government at the time. I cannot remember any protests from the local state Labor government at the time regarding that move.

The ASC does have a significant operation in Western Australia to do the mid-cycle docking, but we strongly argue that full cycle docking is more akin to the construction of the submarines in the first instance. You are piercing a pressure hull. This is a very, very complex operation. The skills required to do this are extraordinary, and they exist in South Australia: they do not exist in Western Australia. Western Australia is probably doing a fine job with regard to the mid-cycle docking, but I think that the full cycle docking really can only continue to take place here in South Australia.

Of course, we as a government are fully supportive of the continuity of this work being done in South Australia. We have an excellent precinct on the Lefevre Peninsula. Part of that has been now purchased by the federal government, but still a large proportion of that is owned by the people of South Australia, and I think that was a very wise decision. It was a decision that was taken under the former government. In fact, the work was done by the then Chief Executive of Defence SA, Andrew Fletcher, who is now the chair of SA Water. I think a lot of work and effort were put into the consolidation of that precinct for future expansion.

We know that we are in the midst of a massive build down at Osborne; first, for the new sheds required for the Future Frigate program—the Hunter class, as it is referred to—and now we are in the build-up for 12 Attack class submarines. So there is a massive infrastructure build down at Osborne, but there still remains ample space for us to continue with the full cycle docking.

Infrastructure is part of that equation but probably the major area of concern is with regard to skills. Again, I refer this committee to the fact that there are not a lot of skills which exist worldwide that relate to the Collins class submarines. This was originally a Kockums design, but I do not think Kockums still produces these. I now understand that Kockums has been acquired by Saab.

These skills do not exist in Sweden. The major repository for skills regarding the Collins class are in Adelaide. We do not believe that those skills will move to Western Australia should full cycle docking be further entertained by the federal government because there are ample job opportunities for those skilled personnel to take up roles within the Hunter class or the Attack class in South Australia.

If they did not move—and for the reasons I outlined before, I do not think they will move—then this would leave our nation vulnerable. For all those reasons, we remain 100 per cent committed to continuing to deliver an excellent product in terms of the full cycle docking continuing in South Australia.

Membership:

Ms Michaels substituted for Dr Close.

Hon. A. Piccolo substituted for Mr Picton.

The CHAIR: Before I call the leader, there are a couple of things I need to do as Chair. I advise the committee that the members for Port Adelaide and Kaurna have requested to be discharged and have been replaced on the committee by the members for Enfield and Light.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Does the Premier share my concern that if a decision is not being made until potentially the second half of 2022 that that will leave literally hundreds if not thousands of South Australian workers in limbo, not knowing what their future holds, without a decision being made?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: There are varying views on this. Some people think the longer the decision takes, the more likely it is to stay in South Australia. Some people have expressed an alternate view that they just want a decision to be made straightaway. The Prime Minister has been really clear on this: they will make a decision when it is in the best interests of Australia to make that decision. We respect the authority of the Prime Minister with regard to this issue.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Is the Premier aware that Western Australian Premier Mark McGowan announced on 3 November 2020 that he will be stepping up his lobbying effort to get the Collins class to Western Australia? In light of that, has the Premier decided to invest any particular new effort to counteract the Western Australian bolstered campaign to move the work?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Can I say there are probably two methodologies for advancing a case for a state: one is via the media and one is directly to the decision-makers. We have chosen to go directly to the decision-makers. It is up to Premier McGowan to decide how he would like to make the case for Western Australia, but what I would say is that this will not be a political decision. This will be a decision that is in the best interests of the country.

I do not think that running political campaigns is going to sway this decision and I certainly hope that it would not. Instead, we are obviously working extraordinarily hard in South Australia to improve our capacity to continue to deliver on not just the full cycle docking but, of course, the other major platforms I outlined in my earlier answer.

One of the things I feel very proud about since coming to government is the effort we have put into significantly expanding our apprentices and our trainees here in South Australia. In fact, on the most recent NCVER figures, South Australia remains way in front of every other jurisdiction in terms of new commencements for apprentices and trainees.

This is going to be vital for this program and for delivering the overall skills that we need in South Australia going forward. What I can say is that on the most recent figures every other jurisdiction went backwards. South Australia was the only one that went forward. When I provided that information to the Prime Minister, I did it with great pride. It was also a demonstration that we are focused on delivering the workforce required in South Australia for the full cycle docking and the two new maritime programs: the Attack class and the Hunter class.

In addition to that, we have many other opportunities in defence, and we need to factor them into the modelling as well because many people think that it is just the maritime programs that exist. In fact, there are huge programs and platforms here in South Australia, especially centred on Edinburgh, especially around the various programs we have there, with the Poseidon and the Triton. We are also looking forward to the Growler and the Reaper, work in systems integration, electronic warfare, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance work in South Australia. We are in an extraordinarily good position not only with maritime but also with these other platforms that the Australian Defence Force will need in the future, and that work is already flowing to our state.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 169. The federal defence minister, Linda Reynolds, announced more than 100 Australian companies had applied to Naval to manufacture 23 specialised items of submarine equipment for the Attack class program. The Naval Group estimates that these projects are worth $900 million. How many of those 100 companies are South Australia-based?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I do not have the information. The Naval Group has been doing a huge amount of work engaging with the defence industry in South Australia. We have some incredible companies in South Australia with real expertise that should flow directly into the submarines program as well as the frigates program. One of the things which is peculiar to South Australia is that we do have a large number of smaller organisations, and so what we are doing is trying to work out ways that even the smallest of these organisations can come into the supply chain.

Some of them will need to partner with other organisations or work out arrangements with some mid-tier firms to be able to interact with the primes on this platform. I have every confidence South Australia will do extraordinarily well, directly, with employees through ASC Shipbuilding and the Naval Group and also within the entire supply chain.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Given the Premier's and my common desire to maximise the opportunity of this Attack class work being here in South Australia, in terms of this initial round that I referred to being announced, does the government have a target of how much of that $900 million of work we would like to have here in South Australia?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: As I was saying, it is not just the Naval Group plan.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I understand that, but I am just asking whether or not you have a target or something that you are shooting for in terms of the volume of the $900 million of work being local.

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I do not have that target with me at the moment, but I am happy to refer back to the organisation and, if they do have that information, I am very happy to provide it. Because I think this is an area where we do need to act in a bipartisan way, I am also very happy that these platforms do not go just over a single term of government or even, often, over an entire government. They will very likely have multiple governments over the decades-long program.

Our commitment has always been to provide detailed briefings where required by the opposition. Some of those briefings, of course, need to remain confidential. We have not had any breaches whatsoever of that confidentiality requirement because a lot of the information we deal with in this area is commercial. We get information from companies that needs to remain confidential. We do that. As I said, we are very happy to provide detailed briefings, and I am happy to get some information and come back to the leader. I am also happy for him to have a further briefing from Defence SA, if he requests.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Thank you. Do we have an estimation, if not an exact figure, of how many South Australians are currently employed in work associated with the Attack class submarine program?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: How many South Australians are employed within the Attack class submarine—

Mr MALINAUSKAS: How many South Australians are currently employed associated with the Future Submarine program generally? It might not necessarily just be with Naval, but generally around that. The follow-up question was going to be: do we have an estimation of how many people are currently employed with work associated with the Future Subs program and do we have a number that we project would be the case in one, two, three or four years' time?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I will take the first part of that question first. In regard to the current numbers, my understanding is—I will come back to the committee immediately if I have this wrong—we have approximately 200 people currently employed within the Naval Group in South Australia across two sites. One is at Mile End and the other one is on the site of the Port Adelaide TAFE.

In addition to that, the commonwealth has significant personnel in South Australia who exist within the Department of Defence. My understanding is that they are at Hendon. I do not have a current headcount for those. This program is headed up by retired Rear Admiral Greg Sammut, who I understand is now the director of the submarine program. He has been involved with this program since the beginning. He has a team based in South Australia working with the Naval Group and, of course, with the federal government in regard to this platform.

I am happy to get the information on that, and I am also happy to seek a projection for the total number the Naval Group will have in South Australia, plus what potentially the Department of Defence would have located in South Australia. In addition to those two groups, there are a large number of people we project would be ultimately employed in that supply chain. Very few of them would be employed in that at the moment, but there would be some numbers in this area and I think you will now start to see this significantly expand.

The final group of people who are definitely employed at the moment in regard to this platform are those employed in the construction of the site. My understanding is (and I might be corrected in a second) this shed is around the size of the Adelaide Oval. I am now told it is bigger than the Adelaide Oval under cover. These are massive. When this new submarine yard is completed, it will be the most advanced in the world, just as our frigate sheds are amongst the most advanced in the world.

Part of my visit to meet with BAE following the signing of the agreement for the Hunter class was to visit the shipyards in Govan adjacent to Glasgow in Scotland. It was quite incredible to see the Type 26 frigates being built for the Royal Navy in a shed constructed in Victorian times. The entire bow and the forward deck were out in the weather. You can imagine that in winter, sir. What we have is really quite an extraordinary shed, so people who will be working on these incredible vessels for decades to come will have the latest technology, the best infrastructure and the most modern frigate in the world.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I, too, have seen that facility in Glasgow and it is unique. I might just return to this question around jobs and so forth. Given the Premier's reference to those different categories of employment, I fully appreciate that it would be difficult for Defence SA to know at any particular point in time the precise number of people who are employed by each of those organisations.

What I am trying to get a sense of is what work Defence SA is undertaking to monitor the number of people being employed in the subs program and what its intention is to continue that work into the future. As you have rightly stated, this is a long-term exercise and presumably we all want to have a sense of whether or not we are getting the return we are looking for in terms of jobs in the state.

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I am advised that the National Shipbuilding College keeps that data and we may be able to do that work. I can also advise the leader that the job numbers are projected to be at 1,100 direct jobs, plus the supply chain, and that this submarine construction work should start in 2023. We have a mighty task on our hands that we are currently resourcing.

As I said, to build up the number of people in apprenticeships and traineeships, we are working extraordinarily cooperatively with three Australian universities to develop their capacity and capability. We are working with the existing workforce that is working on the offshore patrol vessels, and before that the air warfare destroyers, to upskill those people to take on some of the higher level jobs in South Australia. We are also working with our Designated Area Migration Agreement to make sure that we can bring in the skills that are required for some of those high-level technical jobs where those skills do not exist in Australia.

One of the critical areas with regard to this is around security clearances. This has been a detailed discussion with the federal government to make sure that we have the personnel not just with the skills but also with the relevant security clearances so that they can work on those platforms. I can assure this committee that this is a major focus, if not the major focus, for Defence SA and the NSC, the National Shipbuilding College, not the National Security Committee—well, probably both in reality. Both NSCs are very much involved in this task.

The early indications are that South Australia is well on track to deliver an expansion of our workforce in line with the projected requirement. More than that, I must say that we have done it before. People sometimes forget this. We have significantly increased our workforce to deliver the Collins class submarine. We significantly increased our workforce in South Australia to deliver the air warfare destroyers. We are more than happy to be able to do this again. It is not going to happen by hoping it happens, and very significant resources are now being directed to this task.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: In terms of those resources, what is Defence SA doing to monitor those? Is there a particular unit within Defence SA? Is there a particular allocation of funds within Defence SA to do that monitoring exercise, or does Defence SA take the view that it is principally the task of the college?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: We have a dedicated person who looks after this task. She has a team around her and she has very good depth relationships with all the major defence companies in South Australia, not just the Naval Group. As you could imagine, we do not want just one primed to keep advertising and taking people from other defence companies in South Australia. We have to grow that overall size.

Last month, we had quite an extensive advertising campaign in very targeted areas on the eastern seaboard, talking to them about the job opportunities that will exist for decades here in South Australia. This was done and designed in consultation with all those primes that sat around that table. Also, those primes themselves put their campaigns out for recruitment. These primes are putting significant sums of money behind these programs but, from Defence SA's perspective, we are coordinating those efforts so that we are all heading in the same direction.

As I said, it would be very, very suboptimal if somebody in the Naval Group were just taken from BAE, and then BAE took somebody from Saab, and then the Saab person took somebody from Raytheon. We would not be getting any of the additionality that we require. I have to say that what we have is a very sophisticated, cooperative approach with those primes, for us to spend state taxpayers' dollars on the recruitment program and then the primes to augment that with their own direct programs.

We are also doing a lot of work with our three universities. I recently chaired a meeting with the three vice-chancellors and the chief executives of our primes in South Australia to again get that ability for the primes to go onto campus, to meet with lecturers, to promote the great job opportunities to the next generation. We want our best and brightest people looking at opportunities right here in South Australia, and there are certainly a lot of opportunities in that defence and space sector going forward.

In the past, the defence sector has had a little bit of a bad rap because often what was happening was that a platform would be decided and it might run for six or eight years or maybe a decade, but when that platform finished people found themselves out of work. This was not as attractive an opportunity, a clear opportunity, as maybe some other sectors.

Since the Coalition was elected, at the most recent time they were re-elected, they set about developing a continuous shipbuilding program. In fact, they made two very important decisions on behalf of the nation: number one was to increase defence spend to 2 per cent of GDP; the second, though, was to consider the defence industry as a strategic defence capability.

The consequences of that were, essentially, that we developed a continuous shipbuilding program. Rather than the stop-start nature of what occurred before, we basically moved to a continuous shipbuilding program, which I absolutely know makes it more attractive for people to want to go into this sector going forward. We are very happy that is the case, and we are selling that to people who are at schools, people who are at universities and people out in the broader jobs market.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Can the Premier provide the committee with an update—the Premier mentioned the 2023 figure earlier—on when Defence SA or the government believes we will see major construction start on the first of the Future Subs? Is it the 2023 year?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Yes. The contract was awarded to the Naval Group and there were detailed negotiations, which led to the signing of the Strategic Partnering Agreement, which was signed in Canberra with France's defence minister, Florence Parly, and our defence minister, Christopher Pyne. We are now doing the detailed design work for the construction of the infrastructure down at Osborne ahead of essentially beginning construction in 2023.

Ultimately, I have to remind the committee that this is not a project of the South Australian government. It is a project of the federal government, so those details need to be provided by the people who are more intimately involved. Our responsibility at the state level is really around infrastructure, any planning requirements and the provision of a skilled workforce, so we have applied ourselves diligently to that.

We have always remained very interested in the broader issues that of course need to be administered by the Naval Group and the federal government, but our primary responsibilities are really, as I said, infrastructure here in South Australia, which might require some planning changes potentially, and the provision of the skilled workforce as required.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: So 2023?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Yes.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: The commonwealth government has had a few different numbers out there about local procurement and local content associated with the Future Subs program. Does the state government have a local content target or a local content objective for South Australian work associated with the Future Submarine program?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: The Australian industry content has been the subject of quite a lot of scrutiny.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Indeed.

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: My understanding is that the expectation is that there is a minimum of 60 per cent Australian industry content. That has not been broken down state by state, but it is fair to say that, because this work is being done in South Australia, we would expect a very good proportion of that budget.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: What is that figure?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: The original budget was as a $50 billion project. I can find out if there has been a further update since then, but of course originally it was a $50 billion project.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I appreciate that, and the minimum 60 per cent figure is the most recent one that has mooted, but does the state government have its own figure?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Sorry?

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I understand the Premier's response and acknowledge that it is consistent with the most recent remarks that have been made at a commonwealth level regarding minimum local content, but I am asking: of that minimum 60 per cent, does the state government have a target as to how much of that work would be in South Australia?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: What we are about to release is the final of our Growth State strategies. On coming to government, we decided that we wanted to target 3 per cent economic growth, and we identified nine areas. This morning, we released our space sector report and very soon we will release our defence sector report.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Will that contain a target?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: It certainly will provide targets in terms of our growth trajectory between now and 2030—it does not go beyond that—in terms of the size of the defence sector and the employee numbers in the sector. It is pretty consistent with the format that we had with the previous sector plans. What I would like to inform the committee, though, is that these are sector plans, so they have required huge consultation with people in the sectors. These are not the government's plans. They are not stretch targets. I think these are very achievable targets that the sector has had input in the development of.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: In regard to the growth agenda, we very much support government policy orientated towards growth because goodness knows we desperately need it. We had the worst gross state product figures in the last financial year of negative 1.4 per cent. Obviously, that includes part of coronavirus, but to have the worst in the nation is of grave concern. Clearly, these projects represent enormous opportunity for the state.

This will be the last time I ask the question because I do not want to be impertinent with my persistence on it, but I am just trying to get an understanding. Of that 60 per cent local content work in Australia that is of that $50 billion program, does the state government have a policy or a target, albeit it might be released in the document the Premier refers to, about how much of that 60 per cent we anticipate, hope, expect, or target for—use the language that you will—is going to be in South Australia?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: We have not broken that down at this stage by platform, but we do have detail, which will be in the defence sector strategy. What I am told is that our approach to this has really been to look very strategically at what type of work we can do here in South Australia: what do we currently have the capacity and the capability to deliver and also what might we be able to attract?

This is highly sophisticated. The supply chain for submarine maintenance is very advanced in South Australia, but we are talking about a brand-new submarine design. That supply chain needs to be created. Some of our existing firms will be able to go into it directly, but some will need some assistance and some will require us to essentially bring in partners. They could be partners that already exist within South Australia, they could be partners from interstate, they could be partners from overseas.

When I talk about 'partners', I talk about that in the broadest sense. Whether it be a strategic alliance, whether it be a merger or whether it be an acquisition, we want as many jobs in South Australia as we can. As I previously outlined to the committee, South Australia has very good global primes domiciled here with their headquarters in Adelaide. We have some very large local firms, but the vast majority of the sector in South Australia is made up of the SME sector.

What we lack in terms of the overall pattern is mid-tier firms in South Australia. We will try to create as many of those as we can, but if we cannot create them we will look to see whether we can bring them into South Australia. We need to create a workable supply chain, not just for a transaction on an individual component but for the decades-long work that will be in the construction and then ultimately the sustainment of the air warfare destroyers, the offshore patrol vessels, the Future Frigates and the Future Submarines.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I take it then that there is not a particular target or figure, but we will move on to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 169, sub-program 1.1. I refer to the Defence Industry Employment Program for Ex-Service Personnel. Can the Premier advise if the Defence Industry Employment Program for Ex-Service Personnel is active?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: There is a little bit of complexity to this. Originally, I think we went to the election saying that we would fund the DTC to do this work. It really sprang out of an opportunity that we thought existed to transfer the significant skills of serving men and women of the ADF over into the defence industry.

We could see that there was a projected shortfall of skills, especially with security clearances, going forward into the defence industry. We know that there is a pool of people who retire from the ADF each year and we thought that we could have a matching arrangement. We expanded that to say that there would be other veterans who could do this work.

These may be men and women who have served in the ADF over a long period of time. What we know is that members of the ADF are very trusted people within society. They have all acquired extraordinary skills during their time in service to our nation. Many who leave that service are then employed in roles that I think do not fully tap into the capability and capacity they have, so we thought this was an ideal way of doing this. We thought that we would run this program through the DTC (Defence Teaming Centre).

I understand that sometime last year a decision was made to bring that program in-house with the acceptance of the DTC. This was not an issue with the DTC, but we thought that it would be good to bring that in-house. This is a program that I think is best suited internally because we have a good relationship between Defence SA and Veterans SA. They are co-located. We have very good relationships with many of the ESOs (ex-service organisations) in South Australia and nationally. There are some excellent programs for employment provided by these ESOs, and we believe that it is better for that to be provided in-house.

I do not have an update in terms of the number of jobs that have been created. I can say that it has not been as strong as we would have liked, but I am happy to take that question on notice and come back with an answer and also provide further details on whether there are other things people are considering with regard to this budget allocation regarding this program.

The CHAIR: I remind the committee that we will have the opportunity to examine Veterans SA this afternoon after 5 o'clock. Is that relevant to your questioning now?

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Because it is a Defence SA program, it made sense to do it within Defence SA. The Premier took on notice a question that I had not asked.

The CHAIR: Would you like to ask it now just to put it on the record?

Mr MALINAUSKAS: For the record, because it is a question the Premier quite rightly anticipated I would ask, what is the number of people who have been employed through the program? Are there any jobs currently listed on the Veterans' Employment Program website? Is the Premier aware of the last time a vacant job was advertised on the website? Does the Premier have any other statistics about how many jobs the Defence Industry Employment Program has delivered in the past? If the Premier is willing to take all those on notice, I am happy to move on to another budget line.

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I do not have those numbers. I am happy to follow them up, but I am the first to admit that sometimes when you try things they do not work. We tried this within DTC. We set up our own website, but I am advised that the current thinking is that it may be better to work with some of the existing ESOs to deliver the same outcome which we were seeking and which we have not been able to effect ourselves. I do not have a detailed understanding of that program, but I am happy to get some more information and come back.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Are you happy to take those questions on notice?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Yes, absolutely.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: For clarity, though, in light of the Premier's most recent answer, is the program still active?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Yes, it is still active and it is still funded, and it is funded as a line of Defence SA at the same number.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I might move on then. I would like to ask a couple of quick space questions. I refer the Premier to Budget Paper 5, page 33, regarding the Space Discovery Centre and Mission Control facility at Lot Fourteen. What will the total state government contribution end up being to the Mission Control facility?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: The total for the Mission Control Centre, which will be in that McEwin Building on the ground floor, is $6 million, which is $3.5 million from the Australian government and $2.5 million from our government here in South Australia. My understanding is that this work will be now delivered by Saber Astronautics. They are currently in the Landing Pad on Lot Fourteen, and they will be establishing a dedicated office and, I think, its Australian headquarters here in Adelaide following winning that contract. My understanding is that the—

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Is that for the construction or the construction and operation?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: Saber Astronautics is the operator. My understanding is that the $6 million is for the construction, but mostly the equipment for that Mission Control will be operational, I am advised, by the second quarter of next year.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: The operational, all being well, will be in the second quarter of the next calendar year?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I am thinking in the second quarter next year; so sometime between April and June—probably more towards June, because, to be quite honest with you, everything that happens in a building that was built so long ago tends to blow out, but it is going to be fantastic when it is there. The Space Discovery Centre and the Mission Control will be extraordinary.

Saber Astronautics is a great company. They are excited about this opportunity, and I think this will be fantastic not only for filling out and developing the ecosystem but also the public can visit our Mission Control on the ground floor of the McEwin Building. Directly above it, of course, are offices for companies like Myriota, the SmartSat CRC, Leonardo and, of course, the Australian Space Agency, so it is really starting to fill out as a beautiful precinct.

The CHAIR: There is something quite exciting about being able to utter the words 'Mission Control'.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Hence the questions, Mr Chairman. Is there an estimated usage rate of other organisations of Mission Control?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: We know that, obviously, the Australian Space Agency will be using Mission Control. It is also an area which other companies here in South Australia and around the country will be able to access. There will be a combination of confidential tracking and control, as well as information that can be made more readily available to the public.

I just know that what this will do will inspire a next generation of young people who want to get into the space sector, and because it is co-located, or located alongside would probably be a better way of putting it, at the Space Discovery Centre I think it is going to attract a lot of interest from young people visiting this site.

The Australian Space Discovery Centre is also a $6 million investment. It is part of that City Deal that we announced with the Prime Minister. It is administered through the federal government, through Minister Alan Tudge, and that centre will be delivered in partnership with Questacon, which many people would know as the National Science and Technology Centre. They would probably be most familiar with its operations in Canberra; and, again, we are very hopeful that this facility will be opened in the middle of next year.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: How many FTEs do you expect to be employed at the Mission Control facility?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I will take that question on notice and come back to you, but it will be a shared facility. So some people who will be working in there will be essentially employees of Fleet or Myriota, people who are tracking their devices, as well as a core who will be there, but I am happy to get that estimation and come back to you.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: In regard to the South Australian Space Industry Centre, what is the total number of applicants to the $4 million Space Innovation Fund. I am referring to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 172, program 2.

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I am going to have to take that question on notice. What I do know is that we have a large number of projects administered by the South Australian Space Industry Centre that are really designed for one purpose, and that is filling out the ecosystem, supporting via the Venture Catalyst Space program administered by the University of South Australia. We are trying to fill out the ecosystem in South Australia, accelerate those innovative and disruptive ideas around startups and scale-ups in the space sector.

We have some wonderful companies on Lot Fourteen, and more broadly. I am informed that we now have 80 companies in the space sector ecosystem in South Australia, so it is really starting to develop very quickly. Dr Megan Clark AC, the head of the Australian Space Agency, is always quick to talk about the capital investment in this sector. When we look at those capital investment statements going into this sector, we can see that South Australia is now achieving a massively disproportionately high amount of that capital coming into our state and that is something that is very exciting for the future.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: I appreciate the Premier taking that question on notice in terms of the number of applicants to the fund, and I appreciate the Premier may need to take this on notice, but I am also interested in any estimation in terms of economic activity that has been generated around the applicants to that fund, particularly around jobs. I might put one other question in there to round it out: how many other businesses are now engaged in the supply chain as a consequence of that particular grant or that particular fund?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I will take that question on notice, but I think it is going to be difficult to separate out that fund versus all the other programs. To give the leader some insight, we have the Gravity Challenge, which we had the awards for last night. This is our second iteration of the Gravity Challenge. This was something which was brought to me about three Australian space forums ago, when Larry Keeley came out to address the forum and talked about getting companies involved in the space sector so that it is not just agency, not just academics and not just government, but it is actually the space sector. I think this is the guts of what the leader is asking about.

Deloitte paid for Larry Keeley to come out to South Australia, and I challenged Deloitte to tell us what we should be doing to fill out this ecosystem. They came up with a project called Gravity Challenge. I flew to Washington in May 2019 and met with Amazon Web Services (AWS). They agreed to come on. They are one of the principal sponsors providing that data that would facilitate this challenge. In the first iteration, which was decided on November last year, 10 challenges were put forward by organisations or companies in that first challenge. Eight of them have now resulted in companies with ongoing relationships to deliver against those challenges.

Last night, we had the awards for Gravity Challenge 02. There were 300 applications to participate in the project. This was narrowed down, ultimately, to 25. We now have companies in South Australia because of these challenges, because of the Venture Catalyst Space program, because of the scholarships that we are operating, because of the work of the University of South Australia and their Innovation and Collaboration Centre, because of the work experience program that we are offering here in South Australia and because of the very positive way that the sector around Australia is now gravitating to Lot Fourteen.

It is difficult to apply the exact number of jobs or companies coming out of one program, but they all form part of this ecosystem, and I would direct this committee to take a look at the space sector plan. It was launched at 8.30 this morning. It is on the SASIC website. It is an excellent document. Again, it is not the government's plan; it is part of our overall Growth State agenda. It is actually the industry saying to us that these are the opportunities, and the principal opportunity that we feature in that space sector plan is the opportunity around small satellites operating in constellations, and that is a great opportunity for our state for future employment and also productivity improvements.

Mr MALINAUSKAS: Is there a figure that the department or the Premier may have in terms of what South Australia's current share is of the space industry nationally?

The Hon. S.S. MARSHALL: I do not have that detail, but I am happy to come back with an estimate. I think some of that detail is in the space sector plan. I know that the federal government's ambition is to treble the size of this sector and to create thousands and thousands of jobs. That is a very important question, and I will come back with a detailed answer as quickly as I possibly can.

The CHAIR: Having reached the allotted time and there being no further questions, I declare the examination of the proposed payments for the Defence SA portfolio agency complete. Further examination of the proposed payments for Defence SA relating to Veterans SA will continue after lunch.

Sitting suspended from 13:30 to 14:30.