Electoral Commission of South Australia, $6,901,000

Administered Items for Electoral Commission of South Australia, $490,000

Minister:

Hon. V.A. Chapman, Deputy Premier, Attorney-General, Minister for Planning and Local Government.

Departmental Advisers:

Mr M. Sherry, Electoral Commissioner, Electoral Commission of South Australia.

Mr D. Gully, Deputy Commissioner, Electoral Commission of South Australia.

Mr I. Clayfield, Chief Financial Officer, Electoral Commission of South Australia.

Ms J. Carney, Chief of Staff, Attorney-General's Department.

The CHAIR: The portfolio under examination now is the Electoral Commission of South Australia. I declare the proposed payments open for examination and call on the Attorney to make a statement and introduce her advisers.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Thank you, Mr Chairman and members of the committee. Joining me today is the Electoral Commissioner of South Australia, Mr Mick Sherry, to my left. Behind me, he is ably assisted by Mr David Gully, the Deputy Commissioner—who will be well known, I am sure, to members of the committee—and Mr Ian Clayfield, who is the chief financial officer, otherwise the man with the money. I understand that, apart from some omnibus questions being asked, I have an opportunity to say a few things.

I would like to firstly thank the Electoral Commissioner and his members of staff for the ongoing work that has been undertaken to support parliamentary reform and the continuation of preparations for the next state and local government elections and ongoing interim work, providing services to various entities to conduct their work. I also wish to thank him for the advice that has been received by me in respect of further improvements we might look to support for the next state and local government elections, some of which have been incorporated in the budget, and also reform bills currently before the parliament for both state and local government.

With those few words, I want to thank him for his continued service, especially during the 2020 year, which of course has been problematic with COVID-19. We appreciate that work that has been continued to be undertaken.

The CHAIR: Member for Kaurna, do you wish to make an opening statement?

Mr PICTON: I would like to make a couple of comments. Firstly, we are obviously an interconnected world, and we see what happens in other democracies. I think we have all looked at what is happening in the United States at the moment with a bit of concern in terms of the state of democracy.

There are a number of things that we take for granted here in Australia in acceptance of democratic norms. One of the things that we all really appreciate, even more so now we can see what is going on on the other side of the world, is an independent Electoral Commission and its importance in our democracy—a commission that all sides of politics have confidence in and the community also has confidence in to be independent.

We see what is happening, particularly in the United States, with some very partisan displays of concern around the conduct of elections, and I hope that all of us can continue to have confidence in the great work of our Electoral Commission here at the state level and at the federal level because it provides a robustness to our democracy that we are sadly not seeing in the United States at the moment.

The CHAIR: Thank you, member for Kaurna.

Mr PICTON: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 12. Specifically, my question relates to the objective for the Electoral Commission that is stated to be, and I quote:

To provide services which enable the fair and independent election of government and governing bodies which helps and encourages the community to participate with confidence and trust in the democratic processes of representation—

as I was just saying. With that in mind, what are the implications for the Electoral Commission in terms of polling locations, staff and other logistics when facing a state election, local elections and possibly even a federal election, all within a 12-month period of time?

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: I thank the member for the question. I think it is fair to say it produces a number of challenges, and I have had discussions on that matter with the Electoral Commissioner. I will ask him to outline to you the obvious ones and also any other aspects he would like to advise the committee about.

Mr SHERRY: Thank you, Attorney, and thank you for those kind words. As most would know, we have always had to do the state and local government in the same year. I have made a number of representations about the challenges of conducting what are largely two significant elections in the same year. It is a massive challenge for us but, nevertheless, while the legislation is that way we will continue to navigate those challenges.

The year 2022—and I should perhaps extend that to perhaps the back end of 2021, which is the earliest possible time the federal election can occur—will result in essentially the South Australian electors having three elections in which they will need to participate. Fortunately, we have a very good relationship with the Australian Electoral Commission, which I work quite closely with. We are currently coordinating the location of polling places, polling staff and, where appropriate, trying to harmonise our activities to the best use of our resources.

We also have to focus on, in particular, the local government election in November 2022. There will be a real possibility of what we call voter fatigue, that is, electors having to vote in a number of elections in a short period of time. We are very alive to that issue and we will be putting a lot of resources into reminding electors of the importance of continuing to vote in the local government election.

Mr PICTON: How do you manage that in terms of staff? Is there a crossover in terms of staff you might have for the AEC and the South Australian Electoral Commission? Do you potentially put out a joint call for staff? Do you work between each other to make sure there is sufficient staff for that purpose?

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Can I add one thing before I go back to Mr Sherry. The 2018 local government election report was prepared and tabled late last year. That has a number of recommendations, one of which includes legislative reform to enable elections to be in a different year. At the moment, in 2022 they are going to be in different financial years, but they are going to be six or seven months apart, so it remains problematic if they are in the same calendar year, even if they are in different financial years. For the actual practical implementation of that, I will ask Mr Sherry to provide any further information to the committee.

Mr SHERRY: On the question of the staff, there are probably two categories of staff to be aware of. There are our full-time staff who work currently in our organisation, and we have approximately 28. The AEC, of course, have a large number of staff in their offices across Australia, including the office here in South Australia, so we always exchange these experienced staff to help out with the respective elections, and we really could not run the elections without their assistance.

The next category of staff is our polling officials, and they are the 6,000-odd South Australians we really rely upon to provide a service; albeit they do get paid a humble amount, by and large these people are doing it because it is a community service. They are the same cohort of people who help out with the Australian Electoral Commission during the federal election as well.

The challenge for us, one of which I am very much aware, is that there are subtle differences between the commonwealth legislation and ours. It is incumbent on me in particular to make sure that our polling officials, who might have worked at the federal election just previously, are aware of the changes relevant to our legislation.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: If I can add to that, Mr Chairman, with the 6,000 casual employees required to conduct the state election every four years that has been identified, who need to be identified, reviewed, selected, assigned a role, etc., thoroughly trained and, of course, eventually paid, it was important that there be a thorough operational review and evaluation after the 2018 state election.

Improvements to modernise were identified, and so there is a budget measure to assist in that, at $1.97 million, to have an end-to-end online employment system and a new learning and management system for the temporary election workforce, that is, those I have referred to. The employment system is obviously designed to align with the federal commission's employment system to ensure maximum efficiencies between the two commissions when dealing with largely the same workforce.

The learning system will provide online content and reporting to ensure that all staff are appropriately trained in election services. Also, $590,000 is provided for additional temporary staff for the 2022 election to facilitate increased engagement for Aboriginal electors and additional organisation and supervision of processing centres and other improvements to project manage this major electoral event. An investing expenditure of $144,000 has also been allocated to upgrade the online election results platform to increase accessibility of comprehensive election results.

Mr PICTON: You mentioned before, Attorney, the local government election and potential recommendations to change the date of that. Is that actively being considered by either the government or the commission in relation to the forthcoming local government elections, or will they definitely be going ahead in 2022?

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: At the moment, we are working through all the recommendations. I just outlined one of those recommendations. I think there are 21 recommendations, so somebody is having a look through all those. My expectation is that we are unlikely to have any reform before, I think, November 2022.

Mr SHERRY: It is my understanding that is correct. It will not be the next election in 2022.

Mr PICTON: I think that we are all hoping that between now and March 2022 we have a vaccine and that we are able to not have COVID-19 restrictions and social distancing in place. However, that is by no means guaranteed, and I would hope that the commission is working on precautions and ways of managing that. Obviously, there have been a number of state and territory elections that have been happening during the pandemic. Through the Attorney to the commissioner, I am wondering whether we can get an outline of what preparations are being put in place for operating an election during a pandemic?

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Before I invite the commissioner to make further comment, may I say that a number of countries and states have undertaken elections during COVID. In fact, the member for Kaurna has mentioned the United States, although he sees what happened there as some threat to the processes of democratic elections.

I just perhaps remind the committee that we also have an appellate process in South Australia and Australia. We call it the Court of Disputed Returns, which goes to the Supreme Court. However, I think what the member was referring to was the fact that an election has occurred in the United States and that there is no resolution finally of the matter. Mr Biden is the president-elect, to take over on 20 January.

Mr PICTON: Can I just add that I meant in terms of the lack of independence of the electoral process—

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Mr Chair, could I just clarify this. Each of the laws that applies in the United States is challenged by the fact that there is a diversity of rules, and, of course, they have voluntary voting in the United States. I mention that not to have a dispute with the member for Kaurna, but I think we see a difficulty in elections that occur—even with independent processes—where after election night we still do not know who is forming government, and that is a challenge all around the world.

COVID makes it more difficult, and I would expect the Electoral Commission here in South Australia certainly to take the lead in a number of areas, and advice has been given to us which we have transferred into some initiatives in this budget to modernise election arrangements to try to minimise precisely that problem—that is, ensuring that we have fair elections, that people have the right to a democratic expression of their vote, that valid votes are counted and that we have decisions as promptly as possible.

I use the example of New Zealand, which had an election during the COVID world pandemic, and I am advised that they had some 70 per cent of their voting population present for pre-polling day voting. If it were replicated in South Australia's circumstances, this would itself raise even further challenges. I have spoken to the commissioner about experiences recently in Australia; Queensland and Northern Territory have both been through this difficulty. I am sure he will explain to the committee in more detail how expensive that can be and what an extra challenge it produces.

Mr SHERRY: It is a very relevant question, of course, in this current climate. There is a group called ECANZ, the Electoral Council of Australia and New Zealand. We meet regularly. It is a very collaborative group. We share resources, experiences, etc. It has been mentioned here today that a number of elections have been occurring in New Zealand as well as across Australia, and that is both state and local government. The biggest impact, if you like, is that of the additional cost required to run the election.

The reason for that is that more staff are required, in particular, to maintain social distancing outside a polling place. Just as importantly, extra equipment is required. For example, the plastic screens you might see if you go to Bunnings—you have to have one of those for every issuing point, and when you translate that to the number of polling places, issuing officers, it is a significant cost. Basically, there are lots of extra layers of resources that we need to put across.

Fortunately, all the planning has been done by my counterparts in other jurisdictions. All I can say is that we are very, very lucky not to have had a major election in the current COVID environment. Although I am totally confident we could have conducted one, the additional cost for resources and effort to go in is a lot more substantial than for a traditional state election, for example. All the other commissioners are providing their contingency planning, their business continuity planning, to all of us, for which we are more than grateful. So, let's keep our fingers crossed that the environment is somewhat different as we lead into 2022.

Mr PICTON: Thank you very much, commissioner. Firstly, just to correct the misrepresentation of the Attorney, I am not suggesting anything about results of the election. I am suggesting that, when we look at the United States, there are partisan election officials. Here I am very glad, and I presume the Attorney is as well, that we have a non-partisan Electoral Commission, which provides confidence for all parties and everybody in the community. Further to the answer from the commissioner, has there been any estimate in terms of what the additional cost of running an election would be if it was to occur now in terms of staffing, plexiglass and all the other components?

Mr SHERRY: I have deliberately stayed away from that at this current time. The state election is a big enough beast to worry about, so we are focusing on running it in a non-COVID environment at this point. However, I think in around March next year we will reassess the environment and, if it is likely that we will be operating in another COVID environment, we have a whole lot of contingency planning that we will re-act. These have been largely based upon the lessons of my fellow commissioners, of the cost and what they have put in place. It is fortunate that they have conducted these elections before us because we can utilise all their learnings.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: If I might add to the committee, consistent with the modernisation of improvements for future major electoral events, I think some of these will assist in the event that we are faced with the challenge of having to conduct an election in March 2022 or, indeed, November 2022 for state and local governments respectively.

Firstly, this budget provides for $3.7 million over four years—this is extra funds—to undertake three reforms: the electronic roll mark-off in polling booths and pre-poll measures, which hopefully will assist in non-transfer of bugs; the online portal for candidate lodgements—again a measure by which I think it would assist in those circumstances, generally anyway; and the ability to apply for a postal vote over the phone or online, which I think will be valuable here and ultimately for our overseas Australians who are either resident or holidaying, to describe it, somewhere else in the world.

Mr PICTON: Is it the view of the Electoral Commission that there will be at least the same number of polling locations in the 2022 state election as in the 2018 state election?

Mr SHERRY: One of our major projects is the allocation of polling places. We probably spend at least six months looking at demographic voting patterns, availability of polling places and the like. We generally like to look at using the same polling places we have used previously and there are a couple of reasons for that. The electors are basically familiar with where to go and we spend a large amount of our time making sure that polling places are accessible to all electors. A large body of work has already been done anyway.

There are occasions when a particular place may not be available or suitable, for that matter, and we will have to change. Also, it gets back to the same implication of having the federal election around the time. Again, we are trying to harmonise our polling places to make sure that the electors are not confused by one election at a polling place here and then ours, for example, at a different location.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: If I could also add, the Electoral Districts Boundaries Commission's report was recently published, and that invariably changes some of the boundaries. My understanding is that whilst there are boundary changes, some of the places would still be available. A certain school in Rose Park, if I can use that as an example, at the last election was in the Premier's electorate, previously in mine, and now, under the boundary changes, will be back in my electorate of Bragg. Rose Park will now resume its rightful place in Bragg as a polling booth for that part of the election. Obviously, there are changes that apply to joint booths that sit on the boundary of some of those changes.

Unfortunately, we have a really important system of electoral boundary redistribution, but it does cause some confusion at times for people who might live in the same street but be going down to the local school or polling booth each election only to find that they have a different candidate from the one they thought they were going to have. But that it is the system that we have. It is a very important part of our system, but it is one that does provide some challenges to the commission.

Mr PICTON: My commiserations to the people of Rose Park. Following on from what the Electoral Commissioner has said in relation to going through this process, will there be an assurance that we are aiming for at least the same number—obviously they might be in different locations and you might need to reallocate them depending upon the federal election process—or more, or would there be, for budgetary reasons or otherwise, a reduction in the number of polling places?

Mr SHERRY: Assuming that there are no budget implications that would cause me to reduce the number of polling places. We need to look at almost two models: the model of the current legislation and the model of any potential new legislation, which of course has no restrictions on early voting. It really is going to depend on what the final outcome of the legislation will be. As far as polling day, which I can talk about now, I do not anticipate significantly reducing the number of polling places that we used during the 2018 state election, if at all.

Mr PICTON: For any that would close, what are the criteria that you would consider in terms of whether or not they would close and what is the process by which you would make that consideration?

Mr SHERRY: The Deputy Electoral Commissioner will no doubt remind me shortly, but I am pretty sure that we did not close too many more in 2018 than we used in 2014. In fact, it is probably just a handful and that is likely because they were not available nor suitable. This is what is really important to understand. The polling place has to be accessible to all electors and if it is not, it is very hard to rent the place.

In the event we cannot use a polling place that we used in 2018, we will notify the electors by placing a sign outside that particular polling place and/or the local newspapers. But, as I said, it is certainly not my intention to reduce the numbers significantly, if at all.

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: If I may just add, Mr Chairman, in relation to the challenge for the commission to keep the geographical locations available for voters, they also have to take into account the much greater demand for in-person, early voting facilities and the associated increase costs of personnel, ballot materials and premises during those periods that that is available.

In the 2014 election, a total of 80,087 votes was issued in early voting centres, representing 7 per cent of enrolled electors. In the 2018 state election, it increased by 50 per cent to 120,468 votes in early voting centres, representing 10 per cent of enrolled electors. One year later, at the 2019 federal election this increased by a further 103 per cent to 244,488 votes in early voting centres; that represented 20 per cent of the enrolled electors. It could be expected that early votes may constitute over 30 per cent of enrolled electors at the 2022 state election. If New Zealand is any example, if we are still in COVID it might be a lot, lot more.

Mr PICTON: I thank the commissioner, and I believe the member for Cheltenham has the unenviable task of reading the omnibus questions.

Mr SZAKACS: Underselling it, member for Kaurna. I read the following omnibus questions into Hansard:

1. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

What is the actual FTE count at 30 June 2020 and the projected actual FTE count for each year of the forward estimates?

What is the total employment cost for each year of the forward estimates?

What is the notional FTE job reduction target that has been agreed with Treasury for each year of the forward estimates?

Does the agency or department expect to meet the target in each year of the forward estimates?

How many TVSPs are estimated to be required to meet FTE reductions over the forward estimates?

2. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

How much is budgeted to be spent on goods and services for 2020-21, and for each of the years of the forward estimates period?

The top ten providers of goods and services by value to each agency reporting to the minister for 2019-20; and

A description of the goods and/or services provided by each of these top ten providers, and the cost to the agency for these goods and/or services.

The value of the goods and services that was supplied to the agency by South Australian suppliers.

3. Between 1 July 2019 and 30 June 2020, will the minister list the job title and total employment cost of each position with a total estimated cost of $100,000 or more which has either: (1) been abolished and (2) which has been created?

4. Will the minister provide a detailed breakdown of expenditure on consultants and contractors above $10,000 between 1 July 2019 and 30 June 2020 for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, listing

the name of the consultant, contractor or service supplier;

cost;

work undertaken;

reason for engaging the contractor; and

method of appointment?

5. For each department and agency for which the minister has responsibility:

How many FTEs were employed to provide communication and promotion activities in 2019-20 and what was their employment expense?

How many FTEs are budgeted to provide communication and promotion activities in 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23 and 2023-24 and what is their estimated employment expense?

The total cost of government-paid advertising, including campaigns, across all mediums in 2019-20 and budgeted cost for 2020-21.

6. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, please provide a full itemised breakdown of attraction and retention allowances as well as non-salary benefits paid to public servants and contracts between 1 July 2019 and 30 June 2020.

7. What is the title and total employment cost of each individual staff member in the minister's office as at 30 June 2020, including all departmental employees seconded to ministerial offices?

8. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, could you detail:

(a) How much was spent on targeted voluntary separation packages in 2019-20?

(b) What department funded these TVSPs? (except for DTF estimates)

(c) What number of TVSPs were funded?;

(d) What is the budget for targeted voluntary separation packages for financial years included in the forward estimates (by year), and how are these packages funded?

(e) What is the breakdown per agency/branch of targeted voluntary separation packages for financial years included in the forward estimates (by year) by FTEs?

9. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, how many executive terminations have occurred since 1 July 2019 and what is the value of executive termination payments made?

10. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, what new executive appointments have been made since 1 July 2019, and what is the annual salary, and total employment cost for each position?

11. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, how many employees have been declared excess, how long has each employee been declared excess, and what is the salary of each excess employee?

12. In the 2019-20 financial year, for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, what underspending on operating programs (1) was and (2) was not approved by cabinet for carryover expenditure in 2020-21?

13. In the 2019-20 financial year, for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, what underspending on investing or capital projects or programs (1) was and (2) was not approved by cabinet for carryover expenditure in 2020-21? How was much sought and how much was approved?

14. For each grant program or fund the minister is responsible for please provide the following information for 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23 and 2023-24 financial years:

(a) Name of the program or fund;

(b) The purpose of the program or fund;

(c) Balance of the grant program or fund;

(d) Budgeted (or actual) expenditure from the program or fund;

(e) Budgeted (or actual) payments into the program or fund;

(f) Carryovers into or from the program or fund; and

(g) Details, including the value and beneficiary, of any commitments already made to be funded from the program or fund.

15. For the period of 1 July 2019 to 30 June 2020, provide a breakdown of all grants paid by the department/agency that report to the minister, including when the payment was made to the recipient, and when the grant agreement was signed by both parties.

16. For each year of the forward estimates, please provide the name and budgeted expenditure across the 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23 and 2023-24 financial years for each individual investing expenditure project administered by or on behalf of all departments and agencies reporting to the minister.

17. For each year of the forward estimates, please provide the name and budget for each individual program administered by or on behalf of all departments and agencies reporting to the minister.

18. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, what is the total cost of machinery of government changes since 1 July 2019 and please provide a breakdown of those costs?

19. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, what new sections of your department or agency have been established since 1 July 2019 and what is their purpose?

20. For each department and agency reporting to the minister:

What savings targets have been set for each year of the forward estimates?

What measures are you implementing to meet your savings target?

What is the estimated FTE impact of these measures?

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: I indicate that I am happy to take all those questions on notice and provide answers to the committee as soon as practicable.

The CHAIR: Thank you, Attorney, that is what we do with omnibus questions. Can I seek some clarification, Attorney, on one of your previous answers. You were talking about postal votes in the coming election and you mentioned phone calls and online registration for postal votes. Did I hear that correctly?

The Hon. V.A. CHAPMAN: Yes. I think that is a matter we have looked at also for the purposes of assisting those overseas. I am sure the commissioner could perhaps give us an indication of the number of votes that would involve, especially if other countries are going to struggle with COVID, even if we are in a manageable situation, and how we might best be able to deal with that. It is something that we have had recent discussions about. Would you like to add to that?

Mr SHERRY: I think there are probably two parts to the question; the first was about applying for a postal vote. We have put a recommendation in our 2018 election report for the ability to do that online. We are the only jurisdiction in Australia that cannot do that, so it is a fairly straightforward recommendation. The other area of concern, which was also made mention of in our election report, is overseas postal votes coming back in time. Page 52 of my report mentioned that only 5.7 per cent of all votes sent overseas came back in time to be included in the count, so it is an area of concern.

The CHAIR: Excellent, thank you. I thank the committee for their indulgence for my clarification. Having reached the allotted time, I declare the examination of the proposed payments for the Electoral Commission of South Australia and the Administered Items for Electoral Commission of South Australia complete.