Department of Treasury and Finance, $55,641,000

Administered Items for the Department of Treasury and Finance, $1,582,470,000

Membership:

Dr McFetridge substituted for Mr van Holst Pellekaan.

Minister:

Hon. P. Malinauskas, Minister for Police, Minister for Correctional Services, Minister for Emergency Services, Minister for Road Safety.

Departmental Advisers:

Mr G. Nettleton, Chief Officer, South Australian Country Fire Service.

Mr G. Crossman, Chief Officer, South Australian Metropolitan Fire Service.

Mr C. Beattie, Chief Officer, South Australian State Emergency Service.

Mr M. Jackman, Chief Executive, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Ms I. Calabrese, Manager, Financial Services, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Ms J. Best, Business Manager, State Emergency Service, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Ms L. Lew, Business Manager, Metropolitan Fire Service, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Mr J. Schirmer, Business Manager, South Australian Country Fire Service.

Mr L. Golding, Chief of Staff.

The CHAIR: I declare the proposed payments open for examination and refer members to the Agency Statements in Volume 4. I understand there is a changeover in advisers. Member for Davenport, would you like to read in your omnibus questions now while there is a changeover to save us a bit of time? Does that work for you?

Mr DULUK: Yes, Chair. The questions are:

1. Will the minister provide a detailed breakdown of expenditure on consultants and contractors above $10,000 in 2015-16 for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, listing the name of the consultant, contractor or service supplier, cost, work undertaken and method of appointment?

2. In financial year 2015-16 for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, what underspending on projects and programs (1) was and (2) was not approved by cabinet for carryover expenditure in 2016-17?

3. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, please provide a breakdown of attraction, retention and performance allowances, as well as non-salary benefits, paid to public servants and contractors in the years 2014-15 and 2015-16.

4. For each year of the forward estimates, please provide the name and budget of all grant programs administered by all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, and for 2015-16 provide a breakdown of expenditure on all grants administered by all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, listing the name of the grant recipient, the amount of the grant, the purpose of the grant and whether the grant was subject to a grant agreement as required by Treasurer's Instruction 15.

5. For each year of the forward estimates, please provide the corporate overhead costs allocated to each individual program and subprogram administered by or on behalf of all departments and agencies reporting to the minister.

6. For each department and agency reporting to the minister, could you detail:

(a) How much was spent on targeted voluntary separation packages in 2015-16?

(b) Which department funded these TVSPs?

(c) What number of TVSPs was funded?

(d) What is the budget for targeted voluntary separation packages for financial years included in the forward estimates (by year), and how these packages are to be funded?

7. What is the title and total employment cost of each individual staff member in the minister's office as at 30 June 2016, including all departmental employees seconded to ministerial offices and ministerial liaison officers?

The CHAIR: I call on the minister to introduce his advisers and then make his opening statement should he have one.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Thank you, Chair. On my right is Mr Greg Nettleton, Chief Officer of the CFS. Behind me on my right is Chief Officer of the SES, Mr Chris Beattie. Sitting next to him is Chief Officer of the MFS, Mr Greg Crossman. On my left is Mr Joel Schirmer from the CFS. Next to Mr Crossman is Mr Liam Golding. Directly behind Mr Crossman is Mr Malcolm Jackman, CEO of SAFECOM.

Let me just start by putting on the record an acknowledgment for the outstanding work of our emergency services sector. I think it is fair to say that most people in our state share this sentiment, and I have to say that since becoming Minister for Emergency Services, this sincere appreciation has been both reinforced and strengthened. We only have to look back to the Pinery fire event of late last year to realise how fortunate we are as a state to be able to rely on the professional, highly skilled and coordinated efforts of our emergency services volunteers in the CFS and SES, as well as paid professionals from the MFS and the support received from across government.

More recently, I was also heartened to see our sector performing exceptionally, working shoulder to shoulder through thousands of callouts across a couple of particularly windy, wet and extreme weather events recently. I would also like to recognise the valuable ongoing support SAFECOM provides to our emergency services agencies, enabling and allowing them to focus their efforts on the front line. The important work of Surf Life Saving SA and our Volunteer Marine Rescue unit should also not be forgotten for the significant contribution they make to the safety of South Australians along our coastlines.

I believe it is particularly important to reflect upon the fact that our emergency services sector is funded both solely and entirely by the emergency services levy. While every household makes a contribution to the ESL, thankfully, very few will count themselves as beneficiaries of the services provided. In this sense, it is recognised that although many households will never call upon our emergency services sector, in the unfortunate event that they need to, they will be blind to the badge on the truck or the colour of the uniform of those who come to help. They can safely and reasonably expect the nearest, fastest and most appropriate response at their doorstep.

As part of this budget, it was my pleasure to announce, with the Treasurer, a range of additional measures to both support and strengthen our sector. Some of these measures include:

new trucks for the CFS, as well as an acceleration of the retrofit of vital safety systems for both the CFS and MFS trucks;

increased training and support for our emergency services volunteers;

enhanced flood response and incident management for the SES;

additional funds for SAFECOM to provide functional support to the emergency services agencies;

funds for the continuation of the Zone Emergency Risk Management System project; and

specialised training for operators of the government radio network.

Another recent highlight was delivering $470,000 in grants to individuals and organisations in rural, regional and remote areas for resources and upgraded equipment used in front-line emergency response as part of this year's round of Regional Capability Community Fund grants.

I consider myself fortunate that the sector is in the very capable hands of our chief officers and the CE of SAFECOM as they work collaboratively to ensure that principles of public value are reinforced, alongside a strong commitment to continuous improvement. Finally, I look forward to continuing to work together with the sector to build upon the successes we have achieved in the modernisation, harmonisation and innovation of the sector as a whole.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Obviously, there is not a member in this place who does not value our emergency services. As I have said many times, when people are running away from the emergency, our emergency services workers are running into those emergencies and doing a great job for us, Particularly, the wild and wet weather we have had lately has shown the efforts they will go to to make sure we are kept safe.

Unfortunately, despite their best efforts, sometimes there are tragic events. That does take a toll on our emergency service workers and, certainly, our hearts go out to them because they do their very best. This is where this government, I think, has done itself a disservice by undervaluing our emergency service workers, and you will find out in the next 47 minutes why that is so.

Minister, you said in your opening statement 'closest, fastest and most appropriate resource'. I will come back to that a little bit later in my questioning. Chief Nettleton is in the chair so, in that case, I might as well start with the CFS. I refer to Budget Paper 3, pages 18 and 20. In relation to the $9.4 million to retrofit safety systems to existing fire trucks, can you tell the committee when that retrofitting will start? How many trucks will be retrofitted? Will it include such things as halo water sprays, in-cab breathing systems and in-cab pump starting?

The CHAIR: Something easy to start with.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am advised that over the next three years, a total of 195 trucks will be retrofitted. In respect of the specific technologies to which you refer, cabin deluge water sprays will be included, along with in-cabin breathing systems and cabin window curtains. They reflect, as I understand it, best practice when it comes to burn-over technology. Having the opportunity to talk to CFS volunteers, as I know you do regularly as well, this was something that I certainly identified as a priority since becoming minister, particularly in light of the Pinery fire.

The fact that burn-overs did occur in that particular instance was identified as a priority by the government. We were very glad that, through the ESL, we were able to fund this program, which I think will go a long way to enhancing the safety of those people serving in the CFS on the front line.

Dr McFETRIDGE: One hundred and ninety-five trucks. How many crews will still be going out on old, open back two fours and three fours trucks to fires, where all they have is a fire blanket to protect them and a sideline, if they are lucky?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I think the best way to answer that question is to share the advice that I have received with you, and that is that, consistent with our decision, by the end of the 2018-19 year, through the additional funds that this state Labor government has provided, all CFS trucks will be fitted with the burn-over technology.

Dr McFETRIDGE: But is that just a fire blanket, or is it a halo system? Is it in-cab breathing? What is it? It is a big difference.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am advised that wherever it is practically possible, the installation will include the full system. There might be circumstances where that is not logistically possible, but it is certainly the objective of the government and the CFS, I have been advised, that where reasonable and practically possible the systems will be the burn-over technology systems to which I referred previously.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I think it is going to be too little. Let's hope it is not too late. Six years ago, a bloke you know quite well, Mike Rann—I think you are the sixth minister I have had to deal with in emergency services—and Michael Wright, the then minister for emergency services, made an announcement on 7 February 2010:

The State Government will introduce Automatic Vehicle Location (AVL) on emergency service vehicles when the State's new Computer Aided Dispatch System is fully operational.

I understand SACAD is still being upgraded to different versions, but when will the AVL—which are not audiovisual links as you said (it may be in Corrections) but an automatic vehicle location system—be fitted to our fire appliances and to SES vehicles? There was a funding program put out for people to develop this, but I understand stage 2 of that funding program is being cut.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: You are right, this is a Labor government that has been in office for a substantial period of time, so it would not be unusual, I would have thought, to have some changeover in the ministry, but a point nevertheless noted.

I am aware of the government's commitment and remarks on AVL, and it is certainly something that I have been making inquiries about in the time that I have been minister. I am advised that, and I have familiarised myself with this project, in late 2014, the SES collaborated with the Department of State Development on a project to develop resource tracking and checking capability, including AVL, and this was done through the Small Business Innovation Research challenge.

I understand three proposals were received in late June this year to develop and deploy an electronic resource responder tracking and checking system for the sector and to sustain and support it over five years. These proposals are in the process of being evaluated by the sector and I have to say that, as minister, I very much look forward to what the sector comes back to me with regarding a more detailed proposal or proposition around the capacity for the technology to be introduced and any sort of cost that would be associated with it.

It might be worth pointing out that we are, as I understand it, a national leader in this respect. There is only one other very small jurisdiction in the ACT, as I understand it, that has AVL technology in their equivalent of CFS trucks and, of course, they are operating in an entirely different landscape—a very small geographical environment with access to different types of technologies as a consequence.

In that respect, I am advised that South Australia at the moment is very much at the cutting edge in the pursuit of this technology and a national leader, and that is something that we are obviously pretty proud of. There remains a lot of work to be continued to be undertaken, but work is in progress and I am looking forward to hearing back from my relevant agencies once that evaluation of those proposals is complete.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I have visited the five groups that were given the initial grants. I do not want to name them, but they are certainly very disappointed that the second round of grants is not available to develop what I understand is world-leading technology for AVL for South Australia, so much so that people overseas are looking at what they have done already. I think if we could get it going, it would be really good for those particular groups but, more particularly, for our hardworking emergency services workers.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Since you have made that remark, I might just respond. I have to say that I share the interest. Ultimately, the objective of government when it comes to AVL, going back to Premier Rann's remarks, and where AVL can be of particular use is in respect of the Country Fire Service. They have a particularly unique need or purpose for which AVL would be quite helpful which is why, as minister, I have been making inquiries to ensure that we actively pursue the development of this technology to see if there is not an option available to the government for its provision in a South Australian context.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I refer to Budget Paper 3, page 18, '$16.2 million to improve the state's capacity to respond to bushfire threats.' Minister, can you tell the committee—

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Sorry, what page was it?

Dr McFETRIDGE: It was page 18 of Budget Paper 3. The topic is, '$16.2 million to improve the state's capacity to respond to bushfire threats.' Can you tell the committee if that is for more fire trucks and, if so, how many? More importantly, will those fire trucks be built in South Australia? I visited Tasmania not long ago and the Tasmania Fire Service are building fire trucks down there, yet we do not seem to be able to produce them here, other than some of those at Moore Engineering.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am advised that, not surprisingly, the CFS follows State Procurement Board requirements when selecting suppliers of fire trucks. Current CFS fire trucks are constructed in New Zealand and Murray Bridge, with components sourced from a number of suppliers. The CFS will be undertaking a procurement process for new contracts commencing in 2017-18, and I understand and I am advised that routine maintenance of CFS fire trucks is performed by local service providers across South Australia.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Minister, it really amazes me that if the Tasmanians can do the wonderful work that they are, why we cannot. We can build ships and submarines here, but we cannot build fire trucks which then could be exported to the rest of the world as well. The bottom line is that we have a company in South Australia buying the trucks direct in Japan, shipping them to New Zealand, where they are put together by Fraser Engineering, and I understand that Fraser Engineering would like to come to South Australia.

The member for Wright and I have had this discussion, and I am still on about it because I think we should be building fire trucks in South Australia. They would like to come here so perhaps that is something you could work on. With building fire trucks, let's go to the other end of the scale and the very valuable farm firefighting units. How many registered farm firefighting units do we have in South Australia and what is the government doing to assist the operators of those in covering their costs with the emergency services levy?

I have asked the Treasurer about taking that off and he is not letting that happen. I see recently that a group in the Mid North got together and provided a set of PPC to the owners of the fire trucks. What is the government doing to assist farm firefighting units because without them we would be stuck in a lot of cases.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Firstly, I am not aware of and I am advised that there is no specific registration in terms of numbers, but what I can obviously refer to is the substantial effort and investment that this state government has made in regard to allowing farmers and community members alike to be able to invest in things like farm firefighting units. The best and I think the key program that the government puts in place to facilitate that is the Regional Capability Community Fund.

The Regional Capability Community Fund (of which I would have thought you would be aware) is a $2 million fund being administered over four years by SAFECOM to building community capability to respond safely to emergency incidents such as rural fire, flood and extreme weather. In 2016, grants were offered on a cost-share basis; 550 applicants were submitted and 273 applicants will receive up to $2,500 towards the purchase of approved items. Of course, such approved items could include farm firefighting units.

I have had the pleasure to talk with quite a number of people who have been associated with this program and I know that the grants, by and large, are very well received, and I think that is evidenced by the fact that we have such a large number of applications for the grants. I agree with your sentiments that farm firefighting units provide important additional capability to those people who are living in our region, farmers in particular, hence the government's commitment to them through a substantial investment along the lines to which I have just referred.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 63, Investing expenditure summary, Annual programs, Capital works, vehicles and equipment. Is the current trial of having MFS appliances at Mount Barker complete? What are the results of that trial, and is Mount Barker CFS now receiving a CFS appliance? If so, when and what type?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I have been advised and have been keeping abreast of this issue because it presents a significant challenge and a potential model going forward, but the trial is complete and the assessment of that trial remains ongoing. I certainly look forward to hearing the outcomes of it which will form decision-making going forward. I think you had a more specific question around a CFS truck. Is that right, sorry?

Dr McFETRIDGE: Yes, there were two MFS pumpers and there is one now I think from the reserve fleet, which is another issue I will ask about in the MFS section. Can we have some details about the new pumper they are getting and when they are getting it?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Is that the MFS?

Dr McFETRIDGE: It is a CFS-supplied pumper, I understand.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: There is still work being undertaken, I am advised, regarding that particular pumper, but it will be a CFS truck. It will largely reflect the type of pumper that is used by the MFS, but there is still work being undertaken on the development of the specifications before we will be calling for people to put up their hand to tender for the pump.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Why do we not just buy the same sort of equipment right across the services? I think the most obvious, glowing example of where there has not been coordination was breathing apparatus, where we spent millions of dollars to get two different types of breathing apparatus—completely incompatible, from my understanding, between MFS and CFS—and now we have different trucks and different pumps. I think we really need to look at this, and perhaps later Mr Jackman might talk to us about harmonisation, integration and modernisation.

We will move on in that case. The Mount Barker guys will have to wait. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 62, net cost of services summary. How many new CFS stations will be built this financial year, where are they and what are the issues holding up the new build, such as that at Rockleigh?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I will go into a bit of detail here and deal with both the CFS and SES projects, if you are comfortable with that, and specify which are which. In the 2015-16 financial year, there are a number of things that were completed—namely, the Eastern suburbs SES, Coonalpyn CFS, Corny Point CFS—and also in the same financial year a number of projects have begun construction, including Salisbury SES, Sturt SES, Mount Gambier SES, Gawler River CFS, Farrell Flat CFS. For this financial year, the targets that are in place, ready either to be completed or ready for construction to commence, include the Port Pirie SES, Delamere CFS, Port Victoria CFS, Mundulla CFS, Lock CFS, Stuart Range CFS and Terowie CFS.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Why is it taking so long to provide a second set of rural PPC (personal protective clothing) to CFS volunteers? The schedule is out to 2018-19 for the last 6,000 sets; some of the first lot will be worn out by then. You might want to answer, too, why we lobbied hard to build submarines and ships here, yet poor little Remlap, up at Palmer, who used to make all their uniforms, has been dudded and now they are being made by multinational Stewart and Heaton, and I think they get most of the stuff from China.

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order on both sides, thank you!

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am advised that a second set of protective clothing for CFS volunteer firefighters was announced in last year's budget, at $9 million over four years. The rollout of a second set of structural protective clothing commenced in June and will be completed in 2018-19. The rollout of the second set of rural protective clothing will commence in 2016, with the bulk of the rollout occurring in 2017-18 and 2018-19.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Going back to the CFS stations that will be upgraded this financial year, how many CFS stations do not have proper toilets or change rooms?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: A question like that, which is specific in nature, and particularly in the context of the large number of CFS stations and their varying capacities and sizes and locations, I am happy to take on notice and, if the information is available, to share it with you accordingly.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I am just watching the time, so we might make this the last couple of questions on the CFS and then go across to the MFS. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 62, net cost of services summary. What is the cost of moving the air operations from Woodside to Brukunga, and why is it happening?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: That is a question that is somewhat operational in nature, so I might invite Mr Nettleton, Chief Officer of the CFS, to answer it for you.

Mr NETTLETON: The aviation contract we have is with Aerotech, who provide the fixed-wing water bombers and two observation helicopters at Woodside. They have elected to move their notional operating base from a leased airstrip at Woodside, which is shared by other operators, to an airstrip they have built on their property. The cost of the relocation of the service from Woodside to the strip just out of Brukunga is borne by the contractor. The only interest we have there is a small transportable hut our crews use while they are on stand-by at the base, but the bulk of the costs associated with that airstrip rests with the contractor.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Thank you, Chief Nettleton. On the same budget reference, minister, can you tell the committee if the CFS has entered into an MOU with the RAAF to use the Edinburgh air base as a site for refilling large air tankers? Who will be trained to fill the air tankers, and has the minister had any discussions with the federal government regarding the RAAF C-130 Hercules being used to act as water bombers, as happened in the Ash Wednesday fires in Victoria? I pass a photograph of that to you.

The CHAIR: Is that of a plane? I do not know that we need it.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I thank the member for Morphett for his question. Again, I put this in the category of being somewhat operational in nature, so I might invite Chief Officer Nettleton to provide you with a response.

Mr NETTLETON: The National Aerial Firefighting Centre has made arrangements with defence for access to a number of defence bases around Australia: RAAF Base Pearce, RAAF Base Edinburgh, RAAF Base Richmond and, I understand, RAAF Base Sale, for the use of RAAF facilities for the operation of the large air tanker, which is the C-130 referred to, and for the DC-10 New South Wales contracted last summer.

In South Australia, the agreement is with RAAF Base Edinburgh, and we are able to operate those aircraft out of Edinburgh, that is again access, and they have done over the last two seasons. The RJ-85 that came out of Victoria and the C-130 that came out of Victoria for Sampson Flat operated out of RAAF Base Edinburgh for a number of days before it returned to their home state. For the Pinery fire, of the two aircraft that came across from New South Wales, one of those refuelled at RAAF Edinburgh before returning to New South Wales.

As far as the refilling of those aircraft is concerned, we do not have the capability in South Australia and neither do some other states. The capability to refill those aircraft can be achieved, though, by the hiring of a piece of equipment that is based in Albury. It is based in Albury, so it concerns both New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia. It takes about 12 hours to get across here.

Dr McFETRIDGE: That was a civilian RAAF C-130. The photograph I can show the committee is of a RAAF C-130, and I understand they had 10 of them that could be fitted out with modules and dump 15,000 litres at a time. Perhaps that is something we should keep working on. Thank you, minister, and I will move on to the MFS if I can.

Departmental Advisers:

Mr G. Crossman, Chief Officer, South Australian Metropolitan Fire Service.

Mr G. Nettleton, Chief Officer, South Australian Country Fire Service.

Mr C. Beattie, Chief Officer, South Australian State Emergency Service.

Mr M. Jackman, Chief Executive, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Ms I. Calabrese, Manager, Financial Services, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Mr J. Schirmer, Business Manager, South Australian Country Fire Service.

Ms L. Lew, Business Manager, Metropolitan Fire Service, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Ms J. Best, Business Manager, State Emergency Service, South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission.

Mr L. Golding, Chief of Staff.

The CHAIR: Would you like to introduce your advisers?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: To my right, we have Chief Officer Greg Grossman, from the MFS, and also Lisa Lew from the MFS.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 79, program net costs of services summary. The minister might be an estimates virgin, but he has well and truly made his mark as a union organiser representing the workers. Minister, does the 2016-17 budget allow for changes to workers compensation to bring firefighters in line with SAPOL officers; if not, why not?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I do have a degree of familiarity with these negotiations, having played a significant role in the development of the provisions regarding SAPOL. Having been party to that, this is something that I remain very much interested in. I think the government has stated publicly that it is of the view that emergency services workers, such as those within the MFS, should be assessed to determine whether or not they should get a similar entitlement to those people within SAPOL, notwithstanding the fact that they are operationally different organisations.

As those negotiations remain ongoing—and I am advised that they are ongoing with the Deputy Premier as the responsible minister for workers' rehabilitation—with the interested parties, including the UFU, and they have not completed, there is not a specific figure that has been attached to it.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I am not sure whether it was one of the UFU reps, but I think they were saying that it was unfair that SAPOL could get this offer and that MFS firefighters were second-class employees. From what you have said, minister, you are making sure that the MFS, CFS and SES, who have the same presumptive cover for cancer, and so we would assume the same with the rest of WorkCover, are going to get this? I look forward, as I imagine they do, to your positive response.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Can I just respond to that. I should make clear that the responsible minister in this particular instance is—

Dr McFETRIDGE: You would be going into bat, though, wouldn't you, surely?

The CHAIR: How about we just wait for the answer before we start the next question?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: The responsible minister is the Deputy Premier, but naturally, being the Minister for Emergency Services and, as I said, having played a rather significant role in the development of the provisions regarding SAPOL, that is something I have an ongoing interest in. There is a regular dialogue between my office and the Deputy Premier's regarding this subject. I am advised that he is in active negotiations with our emergency services on this subject. I think all parties are looking forward to a resolution of this issue in due course.

The government has stated publicly that it is of the mind and of the view to actively contemplate similar arrangements being put in place for our emergency services workers, paid and unpaid, as is the case with SAPOL, notwithstanding the fact that, naturally, operational differences need to be taken into account.

Dr McFETRIDGE: 'Of the mind to contemplate this', can you just put on the record: are you lobbying on behalf of the MFS, CFS and SES to have that same—

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I can assure the member for Morphett that the respective VAs and employer-employee associations—in the MFS context, that is the UFU—is actively lobbying on behalf of their members and of course—

Dr McFETRIDGE: You are the minister.

The CHAIR: Order, member for Morphett!

Dr McFETRIDGE: You are the minister.

The CHAIR: Order, member for Morphett!

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am very conscious of the fact that I am the minister, but thank you. As I said earlier, the government has publicly stated a commitment to assess the application of a similar arrangement with SAPOL to other relevant organisations. Those negotiations are ongoing; in fact, I understand that they are actively underway. I think all parties would reasonably be looking forward to those being concluded in due course.

Dr McFETRIDGE: On the same reference, minister, do you agree with the United Firefighters Union secretary, Greg Northcott, that capping wage rises to 1.5 per cent is, and this is a quote, 'unfair, because the budgeted rise in government charges and taxes exceeded the wage cap'? Do you agree with that statement?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: It will not surprise you, Dr McFetridge, that I support government policy, and the government policy is to cap wage increases to 1.5 per cent.

Dr McFETRIDGE: So there is a 1.5 per cent cap on wages for MFS firefighters?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Questions regarding wages policy are best directed to the responsible minister, the Minister for the Public Sector, or indeed the Treasurer. Like I said, I do not think it would come as much of a shock that I support government policy.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Is the MFS EB being discussed now and being settled soon?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Questions regarding EB negotiations I think are best addressed to the Minister for the Public Sector.

Dr McFETRIDGE: But you would know.

The CHAIR: Order, member for Morphett!

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: But I am under—

The Hon. J.M. Rankine interjecting:

Dr McFETRIDGE: He'd know, though. Come on, he's the minister!

The CHAIR: Order!

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: I just need to remind you all that my role here is to prevent quarrels, and I am seeing quarrels.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Love is in the air.

The CHAIR: Order!

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: I am trying to give you the floor, minister.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Consistent with my recollection, I have just had it confirmed that the MFS enterprise agreement expires in the middle of next year, at the end of the next financial year. I think all parties expect negotiations to start in due course sometime this year, but, again, the timing of those negotiations is ultimately up to the relevant parties, and the responsible minister in this particular instance is the Minister for the Public Sector.

Dr McFETRIDGE: So, Northcott will be nailing 1.5 per cent.

The CHAIR: Oh, member for Morphett!

Dr McFETRIDGE: Minister, same—

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: What I would say is, having—

The CHAIR: Order!

Dr McFETRIDGE: —budget reference, and this is the only reference that I will make to the article in the media today about alleged bullying in the MFS. I will leave others to draw their own conclusions about that. Does the MFS use section 56 of the Public Sector Act to remove employees who are deemed unfit for service?

The Hon. J.M. Rankine interjecting:

The CHAIR: Yes, what line are you referring to?

Dr McFETRIDGE: The omnibus line, program net cost of services, Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 79.

The CHAIR: His comment at the beginning is the bit that has thrown everybody—a bit of carry on.

Mr Goldsworthy interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order, member for Kavel!

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: I am going to have to stand up, which is going to make me pretty aggravated because I am really comfortable at the moment. You are all going to waste time. Member for Morphett, you have a vested interest in this not happening. You are a seasoned operator, and I should not have to remind you.

Dr McFETRIDGE: My humble apologies, ma'am.

The CHAIR: I think you are misleading the house, you're not humble at all.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Trust me.

The CHAIR: That is right, you are a humble backbencher—no, you are not.

The Hon. J.M. RANKINE: A humble veterinarian.

Dr McFETRIDGE: A humble veterinarian, that's me, just doing my darnedest here, waiting with bated breath.

The CHAIR: The minister is actually waiting very patiently for you all to be quiet.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Section 56.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: The story in today's paper I think is worthy of your questions. I have received questions from the Hon. Mr Brokenshire in the other place regarding this particular issue in question time. I have to say that I have sought to satisfy myself that there is not a culture of bullying within the MFS, and I am certainly comfortable on the advice that I have received thus far that that is not the case.

Regarding options, clearly the MFS is subject to other public sector protocols when it comes to the way it disciplines staff. I am advised that there is no age time limit that applies to MFS officers. Of course, when it comes to workers compensation generally, there is a whole range of avenues that are available to employees where they believe they have not been treated fairly under the law or are not getting the entitlements to which they are entitled under the Return to Work Act.

There are avenues through the South Australian Employment Tribunal, which has assumed the responsibilities of the former workers compensation tribunal, and, of course, the Ombudsman has assumed the responsibilities of the WorkCover ombudsman, so I would reasonably expect that the MFS complies with the law in respect to every section.

Dr McFETRIDGE: They do use section 56 of the Public Sector Act to move people on?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am happy to take that question on notice. I am advised by chief Crossman that he is happy to take that question on notice, just confirm section 56 and come back with a response in due course. Is there a specific inference or a particular issue you are trying to establish by asking that particular question? When you say 'moving people on', are you talking about redemption—

Dr McFETRIDGE: I am happy to take the answer on notice, and there will be follow-up questions perhaps some other time, but that is the information I have been given. I would like to quickly move on in the time we have left to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 85, under Performance indicators, maintenance of fleet reserve capability. Two spare appliances were placed at Mount Barker CFS at the direction of the former minister. I know the former minister disputes that. I did not bring the letter with me. I should have brought the letter with me. The question, minister, is: what is the future of the Mount Barker CFS brigade? Is the MFS planning to have a full-time station there or a retained station? If so, when?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: As mentioned earlier regarding the Mount Barker program, there was a substantial trial undertaken, as you are well aware. That trial concluded only a few weeks ago. We wait upon the outcomes of that trial. Regarding the MFS more specifically, of course the MFS are actively considering the outcome of that trial and what its plans will be in the long term.

As it stands right now, the MFS has not made any strategic acquisition of land regarding a permanent station in the future but, of course, in the emergency services sector, this is an issue that is top of mind and actively being looked at, and the MFS is continuously assessing its risk and opportunities that may present themselves for such a land acquisition should it be appropriate to do so.

Dr McFETRIDGE: On the same topic, have CFS members at Mount Barker been told they are very unlikely to transition into the MFS either as retained or full-time firefighters?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am advised that the MFS has not made that communication to CFS volunteers.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Well, that is what a lot of them understand.

The CHAIR: He has answered the question.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I am just helping him out.

The CHAIR: It is a comment.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Very, very grateful.

The Hon. J.M. Rankine interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order! Is there another question, member for Morphett?

Dr McFETRIDGE: There is, very quickly. This is the last question; otherwise, we will run out of time. The new Salisbury command station is a wonderful facility, and my question is one for the member for Fisher perhaps: when are the southern suburbs getting a similar southern command station?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Given this is a question that is somewhat operational in nature in terms of existing allocation of resources and need, I might invite MFS chief Crossman to answer that.

Mr CROSSMAN: In the southern part of Adelaide, we have a strategic asset interest in a location to replace the Christies Beach station asset, which is coming nearer to the end of its life, and that is going to give us an opportunity to develop a command station to suit the growth and growing needs of the southern district.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Christies Beach, not O'Halloran Hill?

Mr CROSSMAN: The Christies Beach station. The O'Halloran Hill station is still being looked at as a strategic landholding and a strategic asset holding, but the growth corridor down past Seaford is our interest, so we are looking at replacing the Christies Beach station to a station closer to Noarlunga.

Dr McFETRIDGE: My very last question on the MFS is about the Mawson Lakes station. When is that going to be opened, and where will it be located?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Again, being a question that is somewhat operational in nature, I invite chief Crossman to answer.

Mr CROSSMAN: Mawson Lakes has been on the strategic horizon for the Metropolitan Fire Service for some time. It was looked at as an addition to the Salisbury complex, but because the Salisbury asset is in place and is now functioning, we are watching very closely the call rates and response times being provided from Salisbury station. There is a strategic understanding or a strategic impetus to look at the position of the Oakden station, so at this stage we are looking within a five-year operational time frame to come to a closer landing on the Mawson Lakes. At this stage, the call response times from the new Salisbury asset are providing us significant coverage.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I think we had better move on to the SES now in the few minutes that are left. I think Mr Jackman might get off lightly this afternoon.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: On my right, I have Mr Chris Beattie who is the chief officer of the SES, and on my left is Ms Julie Best, also from the SES.

Dr McFETRIDGE: Can I just say to all the chiefs, I have thoroughly enjoyed my relationship with them in the past and I just hope it continues. I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 118 on dot point 5 under Objective, stating:

deal with any emergency caused by flood or storm damage, or where there is no other body…

The SES has 1,650 volunteers—and I note that 425 of those are also in the CFS—and 50 paid staff, while the CFS has 13,899 volunteers and only 144 staff. The SES is 1 to 33, the CFS is 1 to 96, why is that so?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I think it will not come as a surprise to those present that naturally whenever there is an organisation, there are critical needs that must be met to start up services are required. They are very different organisations in their nature and thus have different needs. The statistic that you refer to in terms of the idea of an FTE per volunteer, while it might seem like a logical question to ask, naturally there is a logical answer, and that is that they are very different needs. The SES obviously also takes undertakes different services that the CFS does not, including emergency management roles, planning and the like.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 2, page 122, SES performance and activity indicators. When people phone 132 500 for flood or storm assistance, who answers that call and how is the call processed?

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I just want to confirm that I was going to give the right answer. Those calls are taken by people in the communications centre. The communications centre is located within the MFS, staffed by MFS personnel. If you are interested in more operational detail as to how that works I am more than happy to invite Chief Beattie to answer it for you, if that would be of assistance.

Dr McFETRIDGE: I will perhaps ask my next question and then Chief Beattie might be the appropriate person to come in. My concern is that those calls answered by MFS comms operators, and some former CFS comms operators, then seem to disappear into a parallel universe and we are getting continual responses—and Chief Beattie will know about this because I have spoken to him about it many times, but back to your opening statement, minister, about closest, fastest, most appropriate response—where SES volunteers (God bless them, working so hard) are going past three or four CFS stations to do a job.

Even today at 15:45, a couple of hours ago now, there was a priority 2 (P2) tree down, tree blocking entire road, Shady Grove Road near Para Street. I know this road well because I have cut up trees on it with the Meadows CFS. That was a P2. At the same time Meadows CFS has turned out as a P1, same location, same caller, and then the poor sods down at SES had to call for more crew. They are so overworked, these guys. Closest, fastest, most appropriate, P1, P2—can we please sort it out because it is causing a real issue.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Was there a question there?

Dr McFETRIDGE: Yes, there was. When is a P1 a P1? When is a P2 a P2? When do you stop stacking jobs? When do you stop SES volunteers going past from Strathalbyn CFS, past Macclesfield CFS, Meadows CFS, Kangarilla CFS, to cut up a tree on Cut Hill Road, Kangarilla?

The CHAIR: That is seven questions.

Dr McFETRIDGE: When they could have done the same thing. It is ridiculous. It is a ridiculous situation.

The CHAIR: Order! That is seven questions. I think they have the drift.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: Let me say from the outset that I think SES crews and CFS crews work incredibly hard in dealing with—

Dr McFETRIDGE: Absolutely, no doubt.

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: —these issues. I know you share your support of them. I know some people are very quick to rush to judgement on this issue, and you raise a number of questions on a regular basis in various forums that draws attention from volunteers in various ways, but the fastest, nearest, most appropriate response means a multitude of factors. They are not always simple answers. I have made a number of inquiries about this issue formally through SAFECOM.

A piece of work is currently being undertaken at an operational level to satisfy myself that the systems that are in place do represent the most efficient and appropriate means to be able to deal with these issues, particularly around the question of trees down. I have taken the time myself to meet with volunteers on this issue, including volunteers at Onkaparinga. Sometimes members refer to trucks driving past other stations and so forth and there may be very good operational reasons for that. I am more than happy to invite Chief Beattie to be able to answer a question that is operational in nature.

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order! The answer is not finished.

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order! Everybody, we are running out of time.

Dr McFETRIDGE: We are, you are right.

Members interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order! Do we have an answer from you, sir.

Mr BEATTIE: I think the minister has articulated the complexities of these issues well. The member for Morphett, Dr McFetridge, would be aware that the P1 and P2 response arrangements within the SES apply to a triaging system that is utilised within the MFS communications centre that services both the Country Fire Service and the State Emergency Service as well as the MFS. That triaging system, when a call is taken, seeks to identify whether a particular call is for a life-threat emergency and where it is not a fire-specific response they will allocate those tasks to response assets in accordance with agreed response plans between the three agencies.

A P1 incident is characterised by an immediate threat to life whereas a P2 or a priority 2 incident is characterised as a non-urgent response where request for assistance has been received from a member of the community.

An honourable member interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order!

Mr BEATTIE: During multi-incident events and large-scale flooding events, as you would well appreciate, the communications centre can be inundated with hundreds, if not thousands, of calls in a very short space of time. Under those circumstances, it is important that we do not place the community at risk by having automated responses that could potentially see thousands of trucks travelling in all manner of directions in an uncoordinated way to respond to multiple incidents as they are called in. For that very reason, jobs are stacked at a local level so that they can be dealt with by units and groups of SES, CFS and MFS responders as appropriate to the situation.

Dr McFetridge interjecting:

The CHAIR: Order!

The Hon. P. MALINAUSKAS: I am conscious that time has now expired, but I might just quickly add to that that the recent event that resulted in a lot of trees down due to almost unprecedented circumstances, or certainly very unusual circumstances, in terms of high winds, where the winds were coming from and the fact that we have incredibly wet soils that resulted in a large number of trees down, particularly in the Adelaide Hills region, I think elicited a phenomenal response and provided a great example of exactly how well the SES and CFS in particular—also the MFS—were coordinating with each other to ensure that volunteers from across both agencies were addressing a very large number of callouts, particularly around trees down in a very short period of time.

Of course, there will always be room for improvement. Every incident invites a review. The way SACAT operates is always subject to review and is constantly being improved, as I have already mentioned. I can assure Dr McFetridge, who I know has a particular interest in this as a volunteer himself, that this is something that is constantly being worked on. I am undertaking every endeavour I can at a ministerial level to satisfy myself that the agencies are working well together and that the appropriate triaging processes are in place to ensure that we do have the fastest, nearest and most appropriate response.

I would encourage Dr McFetridge in his public remarks and tweeting and Facebooking to take into account the most appropriate response because sometimes that seems to have been neglected in some of the comments that have been made.

The CHAIR: The time for questions—

Dr McFETRIDGE: That is not true. Those gratuitous remarks—

The CHAIR: Order! The member for Morphett, the time for questions has expired. Everybody needs to be quiet. I declare the examination of proposed payments adjourned and referred to committee B. We need to have a change of personnel so that we can go on to our next section, please.