Legislative Council Fifty-Fourth Parliament, First Session (54-1) 54 1 Parliament of South Australia Legislative Council published Question Time Minda Incorporated Minda Incorporated The Hon. K.J. MAHER Legislative Council Leader of the Opposition Minda Incorporated The Hon. K.J. MAHER (Leader of the Opposition) (15:06): I seek leave to make a brief explanation before directing a question to the Minister for Human Services. Leave granted. The Hon. K.J. MAHER Legislative Council The Hon. K.J. MAHER: In answer to a very general question I asked about issues at Minda, the minister chose to give a very specific answer outlining that she had been written to by the member for Hurtle Vale and claimed that no specifics of concerns were given in the letter of the member for Hurtle Vale. In fact, the minister responded to the member for Hurtle Vale on 15 November saying that matters that the member for Hurtle Vale raised and the accompanying documents that the member for Hurtle Vale had sent were 'in the process of being investigated'. And that investigation, the minister informed, was being undertaken by the minister's own department's Incident Management Unit. My question to the minister is: has the minister kept herself informed of the status of that investigation, and if she hasn't, why hasn't she; and, some three months later, where is that investigation up to? The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council Minister for Human Services The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK (Minister for Human Services) (15:07): If I can outline for the chamber what the incident management and critical client incident process is, because as I— The Hon. K.J. Maher Legislative Council The Hon. K.J. Maher: Just this one. Just this incident. Where's it up to? The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: Well I am actually not required to respond to the member for Hurtle Vale or to this parliament. Members interjecting: The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: No, I didn't say that— The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Minister, through me. Through me. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: I apologise, Mr President. I will attempt to respond. The Department of Human Services has a rigorous process in place to manage critical client incidents through the Incident Management Unit. A critical client incident is an event or alleged event that occurs as a result of or during the delivery of services directly provided by DHS or a funded service— Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Leader of the Opposition, opposition benches, I cannot hear the minister. Members interjecting: The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: —and has caused— The Hon. R.P. Wortley interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Wortley, please. I cannot hear the minister. I wish to hear her answer to the question. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: —or is likely to cause significant negative impact to the health, safety or wellbeing of a client or service recipient. CCIs will usually require a crisis response, incident management coordination— Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Opposition benches, please give the minister some respect as she attempts to answer your question. The Hon. I.K. Hunter Legislative Council The Hon. I.K. Hunter: She's just fobbing it off. You haven't got an answer. She's reading into Hansard something she's prepared earlier. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Well, we don't know if there is not an answer because you haven't allowed her to answer it. The Hon. D.W. Ridgway Legislative Council The Hon. D.W. Ridgway: Chuck him out, and we'll get an answer. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: I do not need assistance from you, the Hon. Mr Ridgway. Minister. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: I have lost my place; I might have to start again. Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Wortley— The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: CCIs— The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Minister, sit down. The Hon. Mr Wortley, please withdraw that comment. The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: What comment? The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: You made a comment that the minister was misleading the house. Seated or standing, it is inappropriate. The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: For the sake of assisting the President, I withdraw that comment. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: You would assist me further if you restrained further comment, too. Minister. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: CCIs will usually require a crisis response incident management coordination— Members interjecting: The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: —there is some context to this—and consideration of a range of risks and sensitivities. The Department of Human Services' response includes skilled incident management coordination, liaison, assessment and investigation, as well as ensuring reporting to other bodies as required. CCIs may include, but are not necessarily limited to, unexpected death, serious injury or alleged assault— The Hon. I.K. Hunter Legislative Council The Hon. I.K. Hunter: Answer the question! Answer the question! The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter, please. I cannot hear the minister. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: —including physical or sexual abuse— The Hon. R.P. Wortley Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. Wortley: You might as well answer it, it's not going to go away. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Wortley, please restrain yourself. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: —sexual assault and indecent assault of a client that occurs as a result or during the delivery of services; allegations of serious unlawful or criminal activity or conduct involving an employee, subcontractor or volunteer that has caused or has the potential to cause serious harm to clients; an incident where a client assaults or causes serious harm to others, including employees, volunteers or contractors, as a result or during the delivery of services; and a serious fire, natural disaster, accident or other incident that will or is likely to prevent a service provision or that results in closure or significant damage to premises or property or that poses a significant threat to the health and safety of clients. We have a pathway— The Hon. K.J. MAHER Legislative Council The Hon. K.J. MAHER: Point of order. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: We have a point of order. The Hon. K.J. MAHER Legislative Council The Hon. K.J. MAHER: The question was very specific and there was just one question about where this particular investigation is up to—that hasn't even been touched upon. Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The minister has some leeway. To the extent that I can hear the minister— The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: Point of order. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: I am dealing with one point of order at a time, the Hon. Mr Wortley, so be seated. I am dealing with one from your leader. His point of order was one of relevance. The minister has some leeway. To the extent that I have been able to hear the question, it revolves around dealing with an investigation. I am allowing the minister some leeway to answer the questions. If the opposition benches allow me the opportunity to hear the answer, I might be able to respond more willingly to their points of order. The Hon. Mr Wortley, do you have something of interest to me? The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: Yes. I did hear a member from the opposite side tell one of the members of the opposition to shut up. I think that's unparliamentary. I think it shouldn't be encouraged and they should withdraw it. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Thank you for that wisdom. Unfortunately, I didn't hear them say that because your side was shouting. Now, minister, please continue with your answer. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: The pathway—there are a number of steps and these are important. The first is immediate response safety. The Hon. I.K. Hunter Legislative Council The Hon. I.K. Hunter: What about the letter from the member for Hurtle Vale? The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: This goes to the point of my earlier response. The Hon. I.K. Hunter Legislative Council The Hon. I.K. Hunter: Have you got an answer? The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter, I cannot hear the member and it is an important question from your own leader. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: This goes to the point that I made earlier that information needs to be reported to myself. If the member does not wish to provide it directly to me they can provide it to the Incident Management Unit. The Hon. I.K. Hunter interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter, this is not a debate. The Hon. E.S. Bourke interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Ms Bourke, you are not assisting me either. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: They can phone my office and we will follow it up. Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Mr Hunter, the rest of us in the chamber do not have the same amount of information, obviously, that you have. If you allowed the minister to answer, then we might be on the same page. Minister. The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: Information needs to be provided to us immediately to ensure that those vulnerable people are not placed at risk. What I said is there is a disturbing pattern of behaviour emerging from the member for Hurtle Vale, where allegations are made— Members interjecting: The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: Read my answer. Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Order! The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK Legislative Council The Hon. J.M.A. LENSINK: —to my office, we write back and ask for specifics and there is a delay in information or it is not provided at all. As far as vulnerable people are concerned, I think that is reprehensible behaviour. I could talk through each of the items on this list, but at point 6 in the pathway: Disclosure assessment— this is after the issue has been investigated— is undertaken to determine if disclosure is warranted to other parties not directly involved in the matter, e.g. other clients and/or families… And MPs, for that matter. So I am not required to respond to this. The Leader of the Opposition, in his first question, referred to a matter to do with—I think the word he used was 'maladministration'. I received another one of these letters, without providing specifics to me, earlier this year and those specifics were not provided. The member for Hurtle Vale has been responded to on each occasion where we have had details and been advised that we have followed up those matters. I find her behaviour quite reprehensible, particularly because this involves vulnerable people. The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: The Hon. Ms Lee. The Leader of the Opposition, you are obscuring the Hon. Ms Lee—she has the call. The Hon. D.W. Ridgway Legislative Council The Hon. D.W. Ridgway: Leader of the Government here! The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Sorry, Leader of the Government, you are obscuring the Hon. Ms Lee.