Legislative Council Fifty-Second Parliament, Second Session (52-2) 52 2 Parliament of South Australia Legislative Council published Bills Vocational Education and Training (Commonwealth Powers) Bill VOCATIONAL EDUCATION AND TRAINING (COMMONWEALTH POWERS) BILL Committee Stage Committee Stage In committee. Clause 1. The Hon. R.I. LUCAS Legislative Council The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: The question I asked in the second reading was raised, in part, in the House of Assembly, I believe, and that was seeking a response from the minister on the record as to what the government is saying in relation to the impact of the proposed transfer on the fees that will be charged. I am happy to wait for the minister's advisers. The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: There were a number of questions asked in the lower house during committee and one of them was the cost of regulation to TAFE SA in the first year of transferring to the national regulator. The national regulator released a fee schedule in early 2011, which caused concern among RTOs. The national regulator considered the feedback from RTOs through the regulatory impact statement process and in response revised their fee schedule and agreed to phase in full cost recovery. It is therefore not expected that regulatory fees will substantially impact on South Australia's RTOs at initial transition. It should be noted that the state has also begun to move to full cost recovery, which would have also seen increased fees for RTOs. Regarding fees for students, the different arrangements for charging fees across states and territories make it difficult to compare student fees. The fee paid depends on the circumstances of the individual, where they are studying and whether they are receiving publicly funded or privately funded training. From 1 July 2012 the fees paid by students for vocational education training courses will change with the expansion of subsidised training under Skills for All. Under the new arrangements courses will attract a subsidy ranging from 100 per cent at the lower level qualifications up to 70 per cent subsidy for higher level qualifications. Registered providers will be able to charge fees for courses that are not fully subsidised, but the department will set a cap on the maximum fees that can be charged for each course. The Hon. R.I. LUCAS Legislative Council The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: Is the minister indicating that the government is not in a position to indicate whether the claim that on average fees in South Australia for students are generally lower than the national average is correct or not? I accept that it is difficult because the government indicates that it has no evidence to support that proposition which has been put to the opposition that generally fees in South Australia have been lower than the national average and that therefore this move, albeit delayed by up to four years, will mean greater than proportionate increases for South Australian students compared to those in other states and territories. The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: At the moment some fees are higher and some fees are lower, depending on what courses they are doing, but the fee structure will be managed through Skills for All, and prices will be set and will be benchmarked with other states. The Hon. R.I. LUCAS Legislative Council The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: I understand that they will be benchmarked, but is the minister saying that under this new arrangement the benchmarking could be that South Australian fees will be set at a level below those in the other states, as is the contention that exists at the moment, or is he saying the benchmarking is that they will be equivalent to, that is, eventually after the four-year transition students in South Australia will pay exactly the same fees as everybody else in the nation? The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: The fee are not set by the national regulator. They are actually set by the providers and state governments. The Hon. R.I. LUCAS Legislative Council The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: The state government remains, as the government would know, an important provider. Is the government committing, should it continue for the next four years, to ensure that its state-imposed fees will be at a level below those in the other states, or is it saying that it is going to benchmark them at the equivalent level to the state government provided equivalent fees in the other states? The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: We cannot actually determine that; we are still modelling for the fees. However, the fees will be regulated with regard to the sort of course they are taking, and the state government will be mindful of the level of fees that are being charged at the moment to ensure that there is no big impost on students. The Hon. R.I. LUCAS Legislative Council The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: I will not delay the committee any longer on this but— The Hon. R.L. Brokenshire Legislative Council The Hon. R.L. Brokenshire: Hear, hear! The Hon. R.I. LUCAS Legislative Council The Hon. R.I. LUCAS: I am sure that the Hon. Mr Brokenshire would like the interests and concerns of those young people and older people who have to pay fees for courses to be pursued during this debate. I put on the record that clearly one of the concerns from some of those associated with VET training is that we will see significant increases in fees, and more significant increases in South Australia because they believe that we have had lower levels of fees than some of the other states and that this move (and I raised this issue yesterday in relation to this bill as well as the Work Health and Safety Bill) to national harmonisation or uniformity, or whatever you want to call it, in some cases disadvantages smaller states like South Australia. I guess we will not know until four years down the track, but I put on the record here that I am a cynic in relation to this. The issue has been raised and I raise it again, and note that we have not really been given any assurance from the government that this will not be the case. In four years' time we may well see our students facing the most significant fee increases of all the students in the nation for the reasons that I have outlined. Their position has not really been protected by this government and its ministers during this particular debate. The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: I note the honourable member's concerns, but all that is being transferred nationally is the ability to regulate the regulation of providers. Standard settings and policy regulation and fee setting are still in the hands of this state. The Hon. A. BRESSINGTON Legislative Council The Hon. A. BRESSINGTON: Just out of curiosity, with all the other harmonisation legislation there has been money passed from the commonwealth to the state. Is that the case with this particular legislation as well? If so, how much and who gets it? The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY: There is no actual money allocated through the COAG arrangements with regard to this, but because we are a reformed state there will be money coming our way; how much is still being negotiated. The Hon. R.L. Brokenshire Legislative Council The Hon. R.L. Brokenshire: So you pass the legislation and— The Chair Legislative Council The CHAIR: Order! Clause passed. Remaining clauses (2 to 10), schedule and title passed. Bill reported without amendment. Third Reading Third Reading The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY Legislative Council Minister for Industrial Relations, Minister for State/Local Government Relations The Hon. R.P. WORTLEY (Minister for Industrial Relations, Minister for State/Local Government Relations) (15:55): I move: That this bill be now read a third time. Bill read a third time and passed.