Legislative Council Fifty-First Parliament, Third Session (51-3) 51 3 Parliament of South Australia Legislative Council published Question Time Prisons, Overcrowding PRISONS, OVERCROWDING The Hon. S.G. WADE Legislative Council PRISONS, OVERCROWDING The Hon. S.G. WADE (14:29): I seek leave to make a brief explanation before asking the Minister for Correctional Services a question about the prison population. Leave granted. The Hon. S.G. WADE Legislative Council The Hon. S.G. WADE: In July last year I put on notice a question to the minister seeking prisoner population projections for the next five years. Some 16 months later the minister has still not provided any projections. Last week the South Australian Council of Social Services released a report on prisoner overcrowding in which it estimated that by 2018 there will be 3,082 prisoners in South Australian prisons. In terms of supply, with the expansions to the new prisons foreshadowed by the government and the new bed spaces recently announced by the government (including the government's double-up proposals for the new prisons), South Australia's prison capacity will be in the order of 2,730. Based on this estimate and the SACOSS population projections, the South Australian prison system will be operating at full capacity within two years of the opening of the new prisons in 2013-14—even with doubling-up and the installation of additional capacity envisaged in the new prisons project. My questions are: 1.	Has the department done forward projections for the prison population and do they accord with SACOSS estimates? 2.	When will the minister provide the population projections requested 16 months ago? 3.	Does the government's unwillingness to release prison population projections confirm the SACOSS fear that the government is planning for long-term chronic overcrowding of our prisons? The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council Minister for Correctional Services, Minister for Road Safety, Minister for Gambling, Minister Assisting the Minister for Multicultural Affairs The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO (Minister for Correctional Services, Minister for Road Safety, Minister for Gambling, Minister Assisting the Minister for Multicultural Affairs) (14:31): I will follow through why the honourable member does not have a response. I thought he had asked questions in the estimates committee this year and that he had received a response. The report about which the honourable member is talking was commissioned by OARS, from memory. I categorically dispute the forecast that was used by OARS in relation— The Hon. S.G. Wade interjecting: The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: Well, we have given our estimates. Essentially, we are saying that we have provided $35 million over four years for 209 beds. We have said that we project an extra 80 prisoners per year. We have had to defer the new prisons. There is another $30 million, without the operating costs. It is always disappointing when people speak in the media and on radio, and commission reports which are not reliable. The Hon. S.G. Wade Legislative Council The Hon. S.G. Wade: Shooting the messenger. The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: It is not a question of shooting the messenger. It is stating the facts. That report was inappropriate for longer term planning. The figures do not take into account the economic and social benefits achieved by this government in the reduction of victim-reported crime. They do not take into account the fact that new prisons are being built. I could be quite derogatory in relation to that report, which is of very poor quality. I have a meeting scheduled with OARS in the near future and I look forward to having a good chat with them in relation to how they arrived at those numbers. Members interjecting: The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: Those opposite need not fear. OARS is an NGO which is funded by this government to the tune of $400,000. Members interjecting: The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: They are very excitable. Members interjecting: The President Legislative Council The PRESIDENT: Order! The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: We have renewed their funding. We fund them to the tune of $400,000 per year as a service provider for the government. OARS has done some research. As I said, we dispute that research and the figures in the report. The Hon. J.M.A. Lensink interjecting: The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: Well, we have. If you look at things in the longer term this is very amateurish, at best. It is embarrassing. Quite frankly, we are embarrassed for them. I am told that the report used a terrible methodology and the estimated cost of $124,633 per prisoner per annum is a spurious figure, indeed. I understand it is quite ludicrous methodology. We have many partners in the NGOs in our prison system. They are valued because we fund them to the tune of $400,000 to be a service provider. We have always had good relationships. I look forward to sitting down with members of OARS and asking how it came up with its unusual figures—because they are not credible. It is not credible at all. I have on many occasions— The Hon. J.M.A. Lensink interjecting: The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: We have. Go and look back at the estimates. We have already said 209 extra beds; there were over 275 in the 18-months before that; and we have funded for another 160 until the new prisons come on-line. So, I am not sure whether the honourable members opposite can add up; I am not certain at all. Of course, given the economic climate that we are in currently, I am sure everyone understands why the new prison project is to be deferred for two years, but what is important is that the procurement time lines have been kept and will be signed in July next year. What is important is that we have funded the department to ensure that we have a safe, secure and humane system in South Australia. So I think when— Members interjecting: The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO Legislative Council The Hon. CARMEL ZOLLO: I would say to honourable members opposite that the Department for Correctional Services delivers a very good service to the public of South Australia and that it is well funded by this government. I would also say to those opposite: leave those who know how to do their job to do their job.