House of Assembly Fifty-Fifth Parliament, First Session (55-1) 55 1 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Question Time Keolis Downer Keolis Downer The Hon. V.A. TARZIA House of Assembly Hartley Keolis Downer The Hon. V.A. TARZIA (Hartley) (14:53): My question is to the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport. Does the minister consider a $36 million mobilisation fee to be a cost to the taxpayer? With the leave, sir, of yourself and the house, I will explain. Leave granted. The Hon. V.A. TARZIA House of Assembly Hartley The Hon. V.A. TARZIA: On 2 April 2023, the ABC revealed that while the government insisted it would not pay termination costs it would pay up to $36 million on what the minister defined as a 'mobilisation cost' in relation to the Keolis Downer contract. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS (West Torrens—Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Minister for Energy and Mining) (14:53): I don't really understand the question. I think what my friend is asking is: do I justify the cost of undoing a privatisation that should never have been implemented after a promise was broken in the 2018 election? Yes, I do think that there are going to be costs of bringing back our trains and trams to the public hands, and those costs are absolutely justifiable because privatisation does not work. It doesn't work. It's a failure. Ask commuters whether they think privatisation works. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Member for Hartley! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Ask the commuters, Mr Speaker, that you spoke of today. You spoke today, sir, on our bus system—although it's not relevant to this question—about whether or not privatisation works. Yes, are there costs for undoing a privatisation? Mr Cowdrey House of Assembly Colton Mr Cowdrey: Says the man that sold lands titles, what else—Lotteries. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Colton, order! The minister has the call. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Colton! The minister has the call. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Thank you very much, sir. Essential services belong within the government's control. This side of the parliament believes that— Mr Cowdrey House of Assembly Colton Mr Cowdrey: In selling things. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Colton! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: —public transport is an essential service. Third-party insurance is not an essential service. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Very, very different. Mr Cowdrey House of Assembly Colton Mr Cowdrey: 'When we do it—okay'. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The member for Colton is warned. The minister has the call. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: And, importantly, it's always important— Mr Cowdrey House of Assembly Colton Mr Cowdrey: And when Tom says it's okay, privatisation is okay. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Colton! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: When we make our promises, we keep them. We keep our promises. An honourable member House of Assembly An honourable member: What about buses? The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: My friend interjects, 'What about buses?' Yes, they are essential public transport as well. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: We are conducting an investigation as we speak about whether we should investigate and undo that privatisation and bring that back into public hands. That investigation is taking longer, and the reason it's taking longer than trains and trams—as we said it would at the last election—is because this privatisation is a legacy privatisation. Again, after having promised no privatisations, members came in and they privatised our bus service. After promising— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: —to never privatise it ever, ever, they privatised it. Mr Whetstone interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Chaffey! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: After promising to never privatise our trains and trams— The Hon. D.G. Pisoni interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Unley! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: —after saying that they had no privatisation plans— Mr Cowdrey interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Colton! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: —what did they do? They privatised our trams and trains. So, yes, there is a cost for bringing our trams and trains— Mr TEAGUE House of Assembly Heysen Mr TEAGUE: Point of order, sir. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Minister, please be seated. There is a point of order from the member for Heysen under 134. Mr TEAGUE House of Assembly Heysen Mr TEAGUE: It's standing order 98A, about 2½ minutes in, as I read the screen: the minister shouldn't be debating— The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Yes, and on this occasion, member for Heysen, not only succinct but also some force in the submission to me. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The minister will come to the question. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Even a clock is right twice a day, sir. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Minister for Energy and Mining The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Even a clock is right twice a day. So, yes, there are costs for undoing a privatisation. Those costs are justifiable; we stand by them. I am not sure about the exact nature of the question. I will go back and check Hansard and try to get my friend an appropriate answer between the next sitting of the parliament.