House of Assembly Fifty-Fifth Parliament, First Session (55-1) 55 1 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Question Time Child Protection Department Child Protection Department Mr TEAGUE House of Assembly Heysen Child Protection Department Mr TEAGUE (Heysen) (14:05): My question is to the Minister for Child Protection. Has the minister directed the acting chief executive of the Department for Child Protection, for the moment commissioner Erma Ranieri, to reduce the number of children in state care? If so, what is being done to achieve this? With your leave, sir, and that of the house, I will explain. Leave granted. Mr TEAGUE House of Assembly Heysen Mr TEAGUE: According to public reports, there are currently a record 4,848 children in state care. The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD (Reynell—Minister for Child Protection, Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence, Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing) (14:05): Thank you to the member for Heysen for his question. It gives me a great opportunity to talk about a number of things, as he asked us to, that we are doing in the child protection system to make improvements. What I would say, first of all, before I get to the important issues that we are tackling and the strategies that we are engaging, is that it is pretty galling that the member for Heysen's— Mr Whetstone interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Chaffey is warned. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —approach to child protection is to attempt— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —to throw cheap shots about the numbers of children in care. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Minister, there is a point of order which I am required to hear under 134 from the member for Morialta. Mr Whetstone interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Chaffey will cease interjecting. The member for Morialta has the call. The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER House of Assembly Morialta Deputy Leader of the Opposition The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER: Point of order: the question was in order and it was respectful. The answer is ad hominem. It is attacking; it is debating. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! We are— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! We are not yet within even the first minute of the question. I have the point of order. I will keep it closely in mind. The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: Thank you, Mr Speaker, as always, for your wise counsel. When we are talking about the numbers of children in care, it is galling the approach from the member for Heysen for a couple of reasons. The first one is that during the four years when those opposite were in government the numbers of children in care— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —the numbers of children in care grew— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Minister, please be seated. Mr Whetstone interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Chaffey! Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Your colleague the member for Morialta is seeking to raise a point of order for me, which I will hear when the member for Hurtle Vale comes also to order. The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER House of Assembly Morialta Deputy Leader of the Opposition The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER: Point of order: the minister is debating. The minister at the one minute mark and at the one minute and 30 seconds mark is debating. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Yes, there is some force in the point of order. Previous Speakers, of course, have recognised that it is permissible to offer a degree of compare and contrast, which might better be described as context. We have had some context, and I will bring the minister to the question. The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: As I was saying, it is galling the attacks that the shadow minister makes, because the numbers of children in care during the period when they were— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —in government the numbers grew by in the vicinity of 950, an extraordinary— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —unprecedented level of growth. What you see now is actually— The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Minister! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: —a reduction, a reduction in that growth. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Minister, the member for Morialta is on his feet and is raising a point of order, which, as members will well know, I am required to hear under 134(2), and that member must address me immediately, which he is seeking to do. The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER House of Assembly Morialta Deputy Leader of the Opposition The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER: Standing order 98: words like 'galling' to describe the question, characterisations of the opposition and their time in office, this is pure debate, sir. The minister seems incapable of answering the question within the standing orders. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! We have a point of order, and there is some force in the matters the member for Morialta raises with me. As members well know, standing order 98(a) provides: In answering a question, a Minister or other Member replies to the substance of the question and may not debate the matter to which the question refers. Those answers which fall closer to the heart or the pith of the question are more likely to respond to the substance of the question. Minister, we turn to you again. The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: As I was saying, to go to the issue about numbers of children in care, the numbers of children in care are reported each month, so to look at growth of the numbers of children in care you have to look at that continuum of numbers. So it is very important, in terms of the part of the question that went to what strategies are we employing around numbers, to look at that trajectory of growth or otherwise over that period of time since they have been reported. It is absolutely relevant to say that, during the four years when those opposite were in government, there was the most extraordinary record-breaking growth in the number of children in care, in the vicinity of 950. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: 950. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The exchange to my right and left will cease so that I can turn to the member for Morialta forthwith. Members interjecting: The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: 950. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Chaffey is warned for a final time. Mr Tarzia interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Hartley joins him on a final warning. The member for Morialta on a point of order. The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER House of Assembly Morialta Deputy Leader of the Opposition The Hon. J.A.W. GARDNER: Standing order 98: the question is prospective; it relates to the figures now and the Labor Party's policy now in government. Commentary on previous governments is utterly irrelevant to the question that was asked. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! That may be; however, a degree of context introduced late in the question, provided it is only context, does not necessarily mean that the reply immediately enters the territory that might be described as debate. What I have before me is a comment in relation to the number of children. It's introduced by way of contrast and, as I understand it, it's introduced in order to provide a degree of comparison. I am listening carefully, and I have made a number of remarks in relation to standing order 98. Mr Tarzia interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Hartley does not on this occasion need to assist me. The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD House of Assembly Reynell Minister for Child Protection Minister for Women and the Prevention of Domestic and Family Violence Minister for Recreation, Sport and Racing The Hon. K.A. HILDYARD: As I said, 950 growth. That growth is now changing in terms of that trajectory, which is a really important point to note when there are these figures thrown out in the question and in the media about record numbers of children in care—record, because I actually want to make a point about record and numbers, but also I just want to make the point that to simply talk about numbers absolutely indicates a complete, utter lack of understanding of the complexity involved in child protection. What child protection workers do every single day is they bear that risk, that challenge of weighing up whether they focus their attention on strengthening a particular family, putting supports around that family, like the family group conferencing we have just invested in, like accessing the additional staff we have just invested in, etc., or whether a decision is made to remove that child. The really important point here is that child protection is incredibly complex, and you have to think about all of those issues and appreciate what workers deal with each day. You also have to appreciate the complexity of issues, the challenges that many, many families are dealing with. We will continue with determination to tackle those issues and to tackle the complexity in child protection despite the sideshow of questions and accusations over here. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! Minister, your time has expired. The member for Heysen.