House of Assembly Fifty-Fourth Parliament, Second Session (54-2) 54 2 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Members Members Member for Mawson, Naming Member for Mawson, Naming The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Mawson, you are now named. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Sir, I move that the apology be accepted. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Member for Mawson, before we do that, I was trying to sort this out but, now that I have named you, you do have the right to be heard in explanation or apology, per standing order 139, if you wish to do so. The Hon. L.W.K. BIGNELL House of Assembly The Hon. L.W.K. BIGNELL: I have done nothing but work extremely hard for people who are going through an extremely tough time on Kangaroo Island, and for the Premier of this state, who has shown absolutely no empathy for those people, to come in here and accuse me of grandstanding— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Members on my right! The Hon. L.W.K. BIGNELL House of Assembly The Hon. L.W.K. BIGNELL: —when he hasn't even had the decency to respond to a letter that I wrote to him 72 days ago, I don't think it's me that needs to be doing the apology, sir. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: I understand that this is a difficult time. We are dealing with, I suppose, heightened emotion. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Are you moving a motion to accept the apology of the member or not accept the member? The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly Schubert Minister for Transport Minister for Planning The Hon. S.K. KNOLL (Schubert—Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Local Government, Minister for Planning) (15:01): I move: That the member's apology not be accepted. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The mover is in every case limited to 10 minutes, including right of reply and stating the reasons for the acceptance, if you wish to do so. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: I understand that this is a time of heightened emotions. As somebody whose community has lived through three significant bushfires, I know firsthand what situations like this do. I have, as have all members in this house, huge empathy for what is going on on Kangaroo Island. I know what the member for Mawson would be going through, in the sense that he would be dealing day to day with issues of people coming to him in vulnerable circumstances. I have had discussions with the member for Morialta, the members for Heysen and Kavel, the member for MacKillop and the member for Narungga about the devastation in their electorates. Unfortunately, in order to be able to accept an apology, an apology needs to be given. As the Manager of Government Business, I was desperately listening to the words of the member for Mawson hoping that there was an apology in there, but it is extremely difficult to accept an apology when one is not given, and it is with great reluctance that we on this side of the house do not accept this apology. Unfortunately, the words of the member for Mawson do not give us any room to be able to do anything other than what we are doing. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS (West Torrens) (15:02): I speak in opposition to the government's motion. I know it is disorderly to talk about interjections, but the Premier interjected across the chamber that he wanted to sort this out and have the member for Mawson remain in the chamber. Then the Manager of Government Business moved a motion in direct contradiction to what the Premier had expressed to us through banter across the chamber. It is very disappointing that the government would use its numbers to try to expel the member for Mawson or any member when they are simply outraged in response to what I think any reasonable member would think is a remark that perhaps would be better left unsaid. The idea that any member in this house acts with anything but integrity when it comes to defending and fighting for their electorate, the idea that any member in this house would attempt to grandstand over a tragedy or a natural disaster I think, sir, is not an accurate reflection of who we are as a chamber. I think we all rise above it when South Australia is on its knees. When South Australia needs our assistance, we all come together not as Labor, not as Liberal, not as Independent: we come together as South Australians and patriots. It is very— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order, member for Playford! Members, order! The Hon. T.J. Whetstone interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Minister for Primary Industries, be quiet. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Again, the house taking a decision to remove a member does not serve the people of the constituency that that member serves. The member and the Premier both wanted the explanation to be accepted. The Premier told us just now in the chamber that he was going to sort this out so that the member could remain. Then his Manager of Government Business does the opposite. I ask the government not to use their majority to remove a Labor member of parliament who was provoked and responded. I think it is fair to say that perhaps both members would want to make sure that they reflect on the fact that this house is here to serve everyone, which is what I think the member for Mawson is attempting to do and I think the Premier is attempting to do. But there is, of course, the juncture that we have here, where we have a member who is about to be withdrawn from the house. There are important matters before the house. We are about to go to His Excellency's residence to deliver our Address in Reply. The member's constituency would be denied that right and honour, so I ask the house and I ask government members to reflect on this and not use your majority to deny people a voice in this house. Do not do it. It is not the appropriate way to use your majority. When I was manager of government business, to my memory I never once moved that a member be expelled. I always moved that the explanation be accepted. That is my memory, and I stand corrected if I have that wrong. I take the idea of the government and the executive using their numbers to expel someone from the minority to be an abuse of power of this parliament. I ask members in the government to understand the step that they are about to take to deny a member their right to be in this chamber. I think it is unfair and unwarranted, and I ask the government members to accept the explanation of the member. Sir, the opposition says that this is no reflection on your ruling. If the motion moved by the Manager of Government Business is defeated, the opposition will not claim that to be a de facto vote of confidence in the Speaker. There is now no reason why the government cannot either withdraw the motion or vote with the opposition to defeat it so that the member for Mawson can remain in the chamber and represent his constituents—because that is why we are sent here. He is entitled to be angry. It is okay to be angry, it is okay to be disappointed and it is okay to sometimes get emotional when you have seen your community subjected to what he has seen it subjected to through a natural disaster. Let's have a bit of forgiveness, let's have a bit of mercy and let's move on and do the people's business. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Would the minister like a right of reply? He does have some time. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: Mr Speaker, I would like to flag a couple of options. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Are you withdrawing the motion? The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: No. Mr Speaker, there are two opportunities I think here. One is the government could take the opportunity now to move to suspend standing orders to allow the member for Mawson to make a personal explanation; whether or not that is something that can be done and explored within the next eight minutes, I think that is something that we should do. There is also potentially the opportunity for the member for Mawson to rise on a point of order to be able to make an explanation. The government desperately does not want to do this but, unless an apology is offered, it is impossible for us to accept one. Again, I think that the good functioning of this house is one that we are seeking to achieve. It is made all the more difficult because a number of the conventions of the parliament are not being upheld, which has led to the week we have had. This house can only operate when all its members adhere to the respect and the authority of the Speaker. To talk over the Speaker, to shout at the Speaker, is not something that can stand because, without accepting the authority of the Speaker, this place would turn into chaos. I accept the member for West Torrens's utterings in this place when he says that he does want a parliament that functions properly. Certainly, in my Address in Reply speech I gave the same commitments to have this house work properly. But, without all members of this place respecting the authority of the Speaker, it is extremely difficult for us to be able to move forward. Again, I note that this issue on Kangaroo Island is extremely difficult. These bushfires have devastated communities and devastated large swathes of South Australia. In fact, sitting next to me is a minister who is personally impacted. When dealing around the cabinet table with bushfires, having firsthand accounts from the Attorney-General about the devastation and impact really does help us to get that personal understanding. I think the great courage she has shown throughout this is a testament to us all, dealing with the macro, dealing with that which must be done by government whilst experiencing personal loss and loss of friends. It is also something that we as government members, when heading across to Kangaroo Island, as we have all done, have all sought do—that is, to talk with local people, to understand the issues and, for instance, the opportunity to speak to Pierre Gregor, the head of tourism down there, about the impact. We have to remember the impact of not just bushfire-affected areas but the areas around there. It is why we took the opportunity to be briefed by him about what the priorities are to help things get back up and running and why I know that members took the opportunity, for instance, to go to Parndana the night they were there to talk to locals and why I know various ministers have been across. The Minister for Environment has made numerous visits because a lot of the issues his department is dealing with have meant that he has needed to be across there. I know that the Minister for Correctional Services and Emergency Services, too, has been there and thanked our emergency services workers for the phenomenal effort they have undertaken. I know that all members of our party room have taken those opportunities to be able to get out there. We will be regular visitors. I implore that whatever procedural opportunity there is for us to be able to deal with this situation in an amicable way to be brought forward so that we can deal with this and show some goodwill in this house late on a Thursday afternoon. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The question before the Chair is that the apology not be accepted. It has been moved. Motion negatived. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Would the member for Mawson like to rise to make a personal explanation? Would you like to seek leave to make any personal explanation? The Hon. L.W.K. BIGNELL House of Assembly The Hon. L.W.K. BIGNELL: No. The comments I have made stand, sir. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Thank you for clarifying that. We can move on to the last four minutes. I call the member for Hammond.