House of Assembly Fifty-Fourth Parliament, First Session (54-1) 54 1 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Question Time Public Transport Privatisation Public Transport Privatisation The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly West Torrens Public Transport Privatisation The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS (West Torrens) (14:40): My question is to the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure. Are any savings or costs contemplated in the forward estimates of the most recent state budget for the privatisation or outsourcing of the public rail network services? The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly Schubert Minister for Transport Minister for Planning Public Transport Privatisation The Hon. S.K. KNOLL (Schubert—Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Local Government, Minister for Planning) (14:40): Sorry, could you repeat the first part of that? The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Sure. I will repeat the question, sir. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Thank you. The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: My question was to the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure. Are any savings or costs contemplated in the forward estimates of the most recent state budget for the privatisation or outsourcing of the public rail network services? The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: There certainly aren't any costs and there isn't any new savings task. There is the existing savings task that was in last year's budget, but there's nothing new in relation to that. But can I say, the member for West Torrens talks about outsourcing, and outsourcing is actually something that government has done for a long time. It's not just limited to the buses in public transport for the entire 16 years of the former government, but if I look, for instance, at the running of forests, the running of the lands titles office, the running of compulsory third-party insurance, professional services, the running of the Mount Gambier Prison, road maintenance— Ms Cook House of Assembly Ms Cook: We're talking about the trains. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Hurtle Vale is warned for a second and final time. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: —security on public transport, hotel services in hospitals, agency nursing staff in hospitals, can I tell you that this idea that outsourcing is somehow anathema to the way that government deliver services is wrong. Every single one of the examples that I just listed are things that the other guys did. So it really is a case of— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: —do as I say, not as I did. I think that the South Australian public needs to look at the actions that governments undertake— Mr Picton interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Kaurna is warned. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: —rather than the words that they say. What's interesting is that if outsourcing was not a model that delivered good outcomes for the taxpayers and for the people of South Australia with the services that they deliver, then those opposite would have done something about it over 16 years, but they didn't. In fact, there are so many examples of where they used outsourcing as a model to deliver services that delivered benefits for taxpayers as well as delivering better services. It's huge. We are talking about billions of dollars' worth of expenditure over the life of their government. On this side of the house, we are honest with South Australians about how to deliver better services. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Kaurna is warned for a second and final time. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: When asked in this place within the last couple of months— The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS House of Assembly The Hon. A. KOUTSANTONIS: Point of order, sir: comparing and contrasting governments is debate. The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The point of order is for debate. With respect to the minister, I wrote the question down because I had two goes to write it down this time. There were a few aspects to the question, so I will be a little bit more broad with the minister, but I will be listening to ensure he sticks to the substance of the question. I ask members on my left to cease the level of interjections. If the temperature doesn't reduce, more members will be departing. Minister. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The central point here is that outsourcing works—it works—and the way that we know it works— The Hon. Z.L. Bettison House of Assembly The Hon. Z.L. Bettison: What else are you going to outsource? The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The member for Ramsay can leave for the remainder of question time under 137A and when she does the minister can continue. The honourable member for Ramsay having withdrawn from the chamber: The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: The way that we know it works is because it was continued to be used on an ongoing basis by governments of all persuasions. There is a difference between outsourcing and privatisation, and here is the clear difference. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: Are you selling anything? The answer in relation to this is no. You could have said that you were selling the Motor Accident Commission or you were selling the lands titles office or you were selling the forests. But what we are doing here is not selling a thing. We will continue to own the tracks, the stations, the trams and all the associated infrastructure. Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: But outsourcing is a tried and tested method— Mr Duluk interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: The Member for Waite is warned. The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: —a tried and tested method that has worked and, over time, we will come to see this— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: —more and more. The reason we know this works in public transport is that over the time of the early years of the Rann government we saw an increase from 2001-02— Members interjecting: The Speaker House of Assembly The SPEAKER: Order! The Hon. S.K. KNOLL House of Assembly The Hon. S.K. KNOLL: —of 33.8 million passengers across our bus network, post outsourcing, to 40 million in 2009-10. What is interesting is that in 2011 the contracts changed and those opposite saw public transport patronage go backwards as a result of the contractual changes that they made but post outsourcing patronage increased, and that is precisely what is going to happen here for our trains and trams.