Estimates Committee A Fifty-Fifth Parliament Parliament, First Session (55-1) 55 1 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Estimates Vote Defence SA, $13,499,000 Defence SA, $13,499,000 Membership: Membership: Mr Pederick substituted for Hon. J.A.W. Gardner. Mr Telfer substituted for Mr Pisoni. Minister: Minister: Hon. S.E. Close, Deputy Premier, Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science, Minister for Defence and Space Industries and Minister for Climate, Environment and Water. Departmental Adviser: Departmental Adviser: Mr R. Price, Chief Executive, Defence SA. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: This is the portfolio of Defence SA, Space Industries. The minister appearing is the Minister for Defence and Space Industries. I declare the proposed payments reopened for further examination. I call on the minister to make a statement if she wishes and introduce her adviser. I also call on the lead speaker for the opposition to make a statement if he so wishes or go straight into questions. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I do not have an opening statement. Thank you very much to the agency, Defence SA, which does incredible work. It has been a genuine delight to get to know the staff there. My only adviser is Richard Price, the Chief Executive of Defence SA. I am available for questions. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Which agency? Is that Defence SA and Space? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Defence SA. I am the Minister for Defence and Space Industries but the agency is called Defence SA, which also includes our space effort. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I will not make an opening statement, except to say thank you also to the department for their work in preparing for today. Minister, I refer you to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 160, highlights. In the 2021-22 financial year, there was a previous plan for the workforce in defence that included a defence jobs attraction campaign aimed at attracting qualified, skilled and experienced professionals, technicians and tradespeople to South Australia to ensure a suitably skilled workforce is available to meet the demands of the naval shipbuilding industry. With the impacts of COVID, there certainly has been a level of disruption to a number of activities across government over that year—no doubt including this. Can the minister provide an update on this defence jobs attraction campaign and if this campaign has been able to be completed? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Just as a bit of context setting, it is increasingly apparent that the greatest constraint on the future growth of South Australia's defence industry and indeed other industries also is the availability of an appropriately skilled workforce. The South Australian government, in partnership with the defence industry, the Australian government and our local education institutions, is committed to supporting and developing the state's defence industry workforce through several initiatives across government. The Find Your Place campaign is aimed at educating the South Australian future workforce and their influencers about the vast range of opportunities in South Australia so that they consider their study pathways and align them with a lifelong career in South Australia's defence industry. The Make Your Move campaign is aimed at attracting national skilled workers with more than five years' experience in their fields to South Australia to live and work in the defence industry and close the gap between the future workforce being job ready. From project management to combat systems engineering, contracts management to information technology, supply chain to WHS, marketing and communications to logistics, South Australia is offering exciting lifelong careers. The shipbuilding projects alone will see up to 5,000 people employed by 2030 and the work the state is doing will ensure the workforce is ready to deliver the projects on time, notwithstanding the challenges that the member referred to with COVID. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Specifically with regard to that defence jobs attraction campaign, money was allocated in the 2021-22 year and $500,000 notionally. Can you provide an update on that specific campaign? Was it able to be completed? Was there money carried over to continue it? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will invite the chief executive to respond. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: The Make Your Move and the Find Your Place campaigns are basically for two lines of effort that are funded out of that funding. We have completed a couple of phases of those. The other part of the initiative was designed to go and recruit people from overseas. Because of COVID, we have carried that funding forward. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: To confirm, minister, that will be able to continue to reach completion? Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: We are running another round of the Make Your Move campaign, which I think has already been launched through the social media channels that we use for that. So that is ongoing and will go on until Christmas. As I say, we have carried forward the Make Your Move campaign. Clearly, until we have some visibility of some future decisions at a commonwealth level, working out where to apply those efforts to attract people from overseas is yet to be determined. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: With the current rounds of the Make Your Move campaign, how many people have been recruited? Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: Can I take that on notice? Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Yes. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: The way we measure this is the level of engagement that we have through social media with likely people and then we follow that through to individual companies. They tell us how many they have attracted through our efforts. What we do not obviously know is what the total number is, because not all companies report to us, but we can certainly give you some information on the ones we have. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Was the other program Find Your Place? Have I written that down correctly? Mr PRICE Mr PRICE: Yes Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Would you be able to provide information— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I just remind members that questions are to the minister. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I have been courteous. I was going to finish with, 'I will put that to the minister first,' but thank you for the reminder. Can the minister advise how many people have been recruited via the Find Your Place campaign? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will refer that question to the chief executive. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: We will take that on notice and provide exact information on the numbers. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Thank you. Again going to workforce attraction—and you touched on this before, minister, but we will flesh it out a little bit further—now that international borders are open again, what plans does the minister have to push ahead with utilising the Designated Area Migration Agreements (DAMAs) that are pertinent to defence? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Obviously, that workforce program sits with DIS, but you are specifically interested—I am not blocking the question by any means—in that association with the defence industries. The way in which it works is that Defence SA will advise DIS what it believes are the categories and numbers required and then that goes into the application process to the commonwealth government for allocation. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister advise on the number of people who have been nominated via your department, Defence SA, to partake in this DAMA? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Are you asking for the 2022-23 year? Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: No, for the 2021-22 year, because the question is how many have you nominated. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Right, but we nominate for the subsequent year, I assume, so that we have nominated now for this coming year; is that what you are asking? Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Yes. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Probably to clarify the way in which I answered the question last time, Defence SA does not give a precise number that it is expecting. It gives the job categories that then sit within the total number that is applied for through DIS and, we hope, allocated by the Australian government. Then it is on a first come, first served basis. Basically, if the categories that have been nominated by Defence SA fill up earlier, then you can have more of them and so they have identified the areas that they would like. I can say that DIS is applying for a higher number of skilled migrants overall than the previous year. Recognising that now COVID is no longer constraining international travel, although obviously as a pandemic it is far from over, we are hopeful that we will be able to get more qualified staff in and I am hopeful that that will service some of the requirements in the defence industry. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Is the minister able to provide the list of those job categories from Defence SA? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: We will take that on notice. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister also provide the workforce numbers required to be filled? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: We can give our best estimates of the expected gaps or requirements, yes. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: On the same budget line, Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 160, again in targets, what other plans does the minister have to attract qualified, skilled and experienced professionals, technicians and tradespeople to South Australia to ensure a suitably skilled workforce is available to meet the demands of the naval shipbuilding industry? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Obviously the effort to have skilled workers for any industry—we are talking specifically about defence here—is a serious effort that requires significant workforce planning, which is the kind of work that I am expecting Industry, Innovation and Science to undertake, in cooperation with Defence SA, on defence workforce planning. There are a variety of ways in which we can build a more skilled and experienced workforce, including the introduction of STEM labs in schools, which started several years ago, and now with our election commitment to establish five technical colleges in high schools to encourage and facilitate young people who would like to enter apprenticeships to be able to do so and find that an attractive option, rather than an option of last resort, which I think unfortunately it has often become in high schools in recent times. They are ways in which we can encourage younger people to both be interested in science and be interested in professions that require more hands-on work as well as appreciate literacy, numeracy and science. Then there is the work that needs to be done now with the Department for Education in the management of the VET system and, of course, working with the universities to make sure that they have sufficient information about where there are likely to be job opportunities and internships to attract students to study and have the opportunity to work. We also need to be working with the existing workforce and their capabilities that might be applicable to an industry that has the skills gap, such as defence. It has been interesting to me in the last couple of months of coming into this portfolio that the lure of space is often more powerful for younger people than defence. I guess that is not surprising: space seems very exciting and so young people who have that cast of mind, that scientific and mathematical cast of mind, are attracted and want to think about ways in which they can get an education to work in that field. The skill set is highly applicable across into defence as well, and so often is a pathway for young people to move between the two. In fact, the two obviously have huge overlaps. The fact that we have the Australian Space Agency here, that we have an increasing industry in space, will also be useful for helping over time to have skilled workers and experienced workers who might move over into defence at a time when there is work of interest to them. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: We have talked about trying to attract staff. This might be similar, but could you give some nuance. What plans does the minister have to retain said qualified skilled and experienced professionals in the defence industry considering, as you have said, there are other adjacent industries you could attract them from? Similarly, those industries can also look to use defence personnel to grow. They also have projected shortfalls, which you mentioned previously, in the order of thousands over the next five years. What plans does the minister have to retain these qualified and skilled defence professionals? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is a matter of some complexity as we are not the employers and it is a competitive market for people with skills and experience. This will be a major feature of workforce planning as a state, as a nation and in the developed world for some time to come. One way in which defence can attract and retain people more is through certainty in the offering. It has been externally unhelpful, for example, for the submarines project to come and go, come and go. Kids in LeFevre High School, where they do a subs program as part of its being a maritime high school, have seen, 'Yes, I am going to be making subs or sustaining the Collins. Is sustainment going away? Is it a French sub, or is it not a French sub? Are we going to be building it here, or are we not?' That kind of stability—if we can create more certainty for ongoing work and therefore for a career progression—will assist in retaining people and allowing them to move up. That said, I do not want to overemphasise the coming and going of the subs project. It is significant, but it is by far not the only project we have in South Australia, and there is a high degree of certainty. Probably the way in which it is reported in the media as much as anything else has created a sense of: 'Is this an area in which I can foresee a long-term career?' If we can achieve greater stability in reality and also in how we talk about and describe defence, I think that will assist. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I refer to the same budget line. As we talked about, it is not just about the submarines; many big defence projects are happening in South Australia. Most of the big defence primes are set up here. Has the minister met with any of the defence primes to discuss their workforce planning and needs; if so, can the minister list the defence primes she has met with and the outcomes of those discussions? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I have met with some primes and with a lot of smaller companies that supply to primes. Given that we are now in the over seventh hour of my sitting here in estimates, I am not going to try to recall each of the primes. I am very happy to supply the list, but I just fear offending by forgetting one, so I will defer that if I may. Absolutely, it has been one of the priorities for me, not having held this particular part of the portfolio in opposition; it was held by my leader. I have been at pains to catch up quickly in that relationship, not only to know the organisations and the people involved but also to better understand the dynamics of that particular industry, as opposed to general manufacturing, which I have greater familiarity with. I have had people in and I have been out. I missed going to the Indo-Pacific event in Sydney. It was my great opportunity to catch up with everybody, but I got COVID—although, as I understand it, I probably would have got it there had I been there because lots of people did. Unfortunately, I was felled on Kangaroo Island and spent that week in bed. I am working assiduously to meet with as many as possible and, indeed, went to the event the week after when they all came back and had an event to celebrate the experience of Indo-Pacific. I went to that in order to meet as many as possible, including several of the primes who addressed the group who were assembled. To your larger point, though, they do recognise that they have a workforce challenge, and that has been part of the discussion. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Would you be able to also take on notice those South Australian companies? You said there were small SMEs that supply into the primes, so as part of the list could you also include those you have met? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: And the longer I wait to reply the longer the list will be. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: There you go—yes, true. You have until September to do so. Continuing on with workforce attraction, we have talked about attracting and retention and also improving awareness of future job opportunities. I think you touched on that briefly, but could the minister advise what the government is doing to improve awareness of future job opportunities in defence and also in space and cyber industries? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I already mentioned the Find Your Place program at the beginning. Obviously, that is the big effort to have South Australian people consider this as a place they might train for and work in. Students are invited to attend events that we hold, such as a space forum or yesterday's Aerospace and Information Warfare Forum event, which I addressed in the morning. Although largely it is for businesses to showcase to each other and to the primes—I think the Navy was there yesterday—having students there is starting that supply chain of people. It is not just a supply chain of components; it is a supply chain of people. The younger ones go around and have a look and see if that is what they would like to do. There are a number of ways in which we try to ensure that people are aware of this as an opportunity. There are also defence scholarships for students studying at university, which were started by the previous government and will be continued by us, to encourage students who are considering what to do at university to undertake courses associated with being skilled in the defence industry. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 160, the South Australian nuclear-powered submarine task force. One of the first initiatives by the commonwealth government regarding their intention to build nuclear-powered submarines, based on either the US or the UK design, was to establish the commonwealth government's Nuclear Powered Submarine Taskforce in September 2021. In response to this, the former Liberal state government established the South Australian nuclear submarine task force, which was announced in February of this year. Can the minister please advise on the progress of what is being done in regard to establishing the South Australian nuclear submarine task force? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Rather than have the information relayed to me and then relayed to you, I will invite the chief executive to answer the question. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: We have started recruiting people into the nuclear-powered submarine task force. The first member of the task force has been working for a couple of months now. Their focus is identifying all the state legislation that might be impacted by an effort to build nuclear submarines on the peninsula. That work is ongoing, and we are expecting them to report back soon on initial findings. Obviously, that is information we will be sharing with the commonwealth to assist them in their efforts. We are also in the process of engaging people to look into the community engagement side of things. Clearly, taking people on this journey is incredibly important, so we are in the process of selecting somebody to undertake that work. There are another couple of positions that we will fill in the course of this year as decisions from the commonwealth start to emerge. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: One of the objectives at the moment is to work out the legislation requirements and another is in terms of engagements. Are there any other objectives of the South Australian nuclear submarine task force that you have at the moment? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The task force is intended to work closely with a number of state government agencies alongside local industry and local government representatives. The focus areas that they are looking at are safety, environmental protection, facilities and infrastructure, industrial base capacity and also workforce. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister advise what government agency will be participating and attending meetings of the South Australian nuclear powered submarine taskforce? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: We have the beginnings of a list between us, but if we take it on notice you will get the comprehensive list. It is the ones that you would expect, though: EPA, transport and infrastructure, innovation and industry. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can I also ask, minister, if you are taking it on notice, are you able to also advise the roles of each of those government department representatives who participate and attend these meetings? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: If they are so defined. It might be that they are all coming together and there is the list and focus areas and they will just contribute as they see appropriate. It may not be defined as, 'EPA is only here because of.' One would understand why the EPA would be there. What we have, we are happy to share., Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: The Budget Measures Statement at page 23 talks about not only the operating expenses but also the full-time equivalents. It is scheduled to have three FTEs assigned to this task force. Some of the explanation around what those roles might be was given in a previous answer. For clarity, can you advise that these full-time equivalents will be separate from the government agency representatives? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Those three are new FTEs; whether they come on as ongoing staff or as contractors is a bit of detail, but they are not the agency representative. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I am glad you clarified that. I thought that, but I did not want to assume. Will these three FTEs be based in Defence SA? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, they will. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister advise how many of these staff have been employed to date for the South Australian nuclear submarine taskforce? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: One already and one is in the process of being recruited. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Is the minister able to advise what their job titles or classifications are? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I probably have to take that on notice. We could give you just what they do, but if you would like the title you need to wait. It is up to you. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister advise how many times the South Australian nuclear submarine taskforce has met? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: They meet because they are all together in the same office. I may have misunderstood your question. Do you mean with the commonwealth? Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: No, just as a body, as a group. They have regular meetings? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: They spend time together. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Do other department representatives come along and attend as well? When I say 'in a meeting', I mean not just the three staff, of which there is one at the moment, but all the government— The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Constantly in session with himself or herself. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Are there formal meetings and how many of them have there been? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will hand it to the chief executive to save time. Mr PRICE Mr PRICE: At this stage, there have been one-on-one meetings with the departments, particularly with the EPA, but we have yet to set up a formal tempo of meetings. They may not be necessary in the same way that we have had the space task force. It may well be that we can manage this through one-on-one meetings rather than a more formalised committee structure. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Minister, is it the intention that you would also sit in on any of these meetings for the South Australian nuclear submarine task force? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I would not expect to sit in on any meetings, but I would expect to receive reports when that is appropriate and necessary for the functioning of the task force. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Minister, your interaction with the task force would be via the chief executive, Mr Richard Price, as opposed to you meeting with members of this task force? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I refer to the same budget line and the same topic around the submarine task force. Has the minister had meetings with the commonwealth government about the nuclear submarine program? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Have I had meetings with the commonwealth government about the nuclear submarine program? No. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Has the minister met with or discussed the nuclear submarine program with the new federal Minister for Defence, the Hon. Richard Marles, since the federal election? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: No. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: In the same vein, has the minister had meetings with the new federal Minister for Defence Industry, the Hon. Pat Conroy, since the federal election? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: No. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I refer to the same line and item with respect to the Submarine Taskforce. Can the minister advise how the South Australian nuclear submarine task force is able to provide effective representation into the federal nuclear submarine task force to ensure that the announced nuclear submarines will be built in South Australia? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The task force at the state level is interacting directly with their counterparts in the commonwealth task force. The question suggests that their task is to ensure that we get the work. Certainly, the goal is to get as much work as possible, but they are there to make the best case, to give the best information and also to prepare us in the best way possible. A decision will emerge at the commonwealth level and will be the subject of much discussion, I am sure, once it comes out. At a political level, we do have a role to play in advocating for our state and our state's capability. How many weeks has it been since the federal election? I am yet to get into the Hon. Richard Marles’ calendar. I can assure you that the Premier is very alive to the responsibility we collectively have to discuss this with the Prime Minister down. He has already been over to Canberra, obviously, for the meeting with the national cabinet—I am not sure whether it is still called national cabinet but that entity—and has had numerous meetings around that. Rest assured that we are live to the obligations and responsibilities that we have at the political level to advocate for this state. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: As we know, minister, South Australia is yet to choose which of the US or UK submarine designs will be the one selected, but the reactors of both these submarines are based on highly enriched nuclear fuel that will not need to be replaced for the expected 30-year life of the boats. Can the minister advise whether the task force is looking into the risks associated with constructing nuclear submarines here and what the legislative framework would need to be? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The short answer is yes. Quite a few of the focuses that were referred to naturally encompass the question of the nuclear content of the submarines, including legislative, environmental, and worker health and safety implications. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: At this stage, can the minister advise whether she sees any barriers to constructing the nuclear submarines in South Australia? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: We want to be able to put these submarines together and supply as much of the kit involved as possible, as many of the components as possible and as many of the services required as possible. We want to be able to sustain the submarines to the extent that we can, and we are doing everything we can to make ourselves available. There is a complexity with the nuclear component, and we will work around what constraints that implies, but that will take some time to evolve through the Australian task force, what role Australia has to play, which kind of submarine we are talking about, and then translate that down to where each individual component will fit. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Is the minister fully supportive of having the nuclear submarines built here in South Australia? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I am fully supportive of us doing as much work as we can within necessary constraints. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister also advise what efforts are being made to work with industry to develop safeguards and procedures around nuclear submarines being built in South Australia? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: That is a little bit further away, with the national task force not yet having reached that point. That will take some time. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I will ask this question, which is in a similar vein: can the minister advise whether the South Australian nuclear task force is looking at skills development in the university sector, in TAFE and in other trades? I will ask a separate question, but just that for now. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Is the Australian task force looking into the skills component? Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: No, the South Australian. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, it is; that is right. As we described earlier, the skills shortage is very much on our mind. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: A question in the same vein: is the minister able to advise whether the South Australian nuclear submarine task force is looking at how to support and improve STEM skills development in the secondary schools system in terms of physics, especially nuclear? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is probably a question that is better answered by the Minister for Education. As I described earlier, having the STEM facilities going into both primary schools and high schools has I think refocused people's minds on the importance of STEM for education. When we rolled that out, it was not just about having the places, the STEM labs themselves, but about having a STEM strategy that was wrapped around that, improving the capability of existing teachers, bringing on teachers with those skill sets and making sure that we were reaching students who might otherwise not consider STEM. Particularly girls at a certain age unfortunately tend to drift away from the mathematics and engineering style of study. There is a challenge in secondary education with enough students doing the complex mathematics and physics that would best prepare them to work in this field. I know that I am talking to someone who probably did extremely well in those subjects at school and certainly did at university, but that is not a sufficiently common experience for our liking. That is an Australia-wide challenge the education ministers are addressing and it is not just for the defence industry. If we are going to have a more complex economy that relies more on people's capacity to design and build innovative products and services, then we are going to have to do better in that. I think we are doing better, but nowhere near well enough. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I have one more question in regard to this. The federal nuclear submarine task force is scheduled to report back in the range of 12 to 18 months. Can the minister advise whether the South Australian nuclear submarine task force will continue on an ongoing basis, even after this federal task force has reported? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is not possible to be certain because we do not know what they are going to come up with. What we need to do is have the right institutional response to maximise our opportunities as a state and if that is in the form of a task force, fine; if it is something different, we will do that. One of the great advantages in South Australia, as I understand it, in the way in which we have been able to secure a lot of defence work, and incidentally the space industry, has been the agility, flexibility and competence demonstrated in the Defence SA agency and, generally, as a government, being light of foot and alive to opportunities. I am not going to decide now what will happen in the future. We will make the best possible decision we can. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I want to move on to another area of the budget. If we go to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 163, regarding the Australian Space Park, the Space Park has looked at having space companies co-locate there with a Common User Facility as well. Adelaide Airport has been identified as a prospective location for this Australian Space Park. Minister, have you spoken to Adelaide Airport in relation to the Australian Space Park? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Although I like to think of myself as all things space, in fact it is the Department for Trade and Investment that is engaging with Adelaide Airport on that. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: That is fair enough. Of those tenant companies, which include Fleet Space, Q-CTRL, ATSpace and Alauda, has the minister been able to meet with Fleet in regard to the Australian Space Park, and do they still remain interested as a tenant? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Obviously, commercial discussions are going on with Renewal SA and Trade and Investment, but my understanding is that all the original partners remain very engaged. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: On that, have you had a chance to meet with Q-CTRL, which is a highly prospective company based in New South Wales, to discuss their setting up an office and their presence here in South Australia? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I have in fact met with Q-CTRL. I met with them on a brief visit I had to Sydney on another portfolio matter and challenged them to explain what quantum means, which I am not going to explain here but, if we have a discussion around at the bar later, I will try. They are an incredibly impressive organisation. What I had not appreciated fully was the way in which Australia has been leading in quantum. We may not continue to; it is always in peril when you are leading, but it has been a very attractive place for experts from around the world to come and locate here in Australia because we are the centre for quantum. So, yes, I have met with them. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Since you have become minister, are you aware of any other companies interested in becoming tenants at the Australian Space Park? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: There is actually quite a lot of interest, but we would not want to go into specifics about who is expressing that interest at present. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Certainly. I can understand that. In regard to the objectives of the Australian Space Park being around manufacturing satellites and doing it at scale, now that the minister has had the opportunity to speak with some industry players, have you been able to get an understanding of the size of the satellites they are looking to manufacture at the Australian Space Park, especially in light of the $40 million that has been committed by both the state and federal government to the Common User Facility? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Sorry, what was the question in that? Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: The size of the satellites, have you had discussions around payloads and the size of the satellites? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Again we are doing the relay, so I will ask the chief executive to answer directly. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: We are not sizing the Space Park purely for the needs of the existing tenants: we are looking at what the needs of the future industry will be in this area. There has been ongoing consultation with industry over probably the best part of two years to get that right. I think it is on the public record that the Space Agency and the Department of Defence are looking to grow our industry to be capable of building satellites in the 350 to 400-kilogram class, so clearly we are bearing that in mind when we design the eventual fit-out for the facility. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I was led to believe that similarly. As was made clear, the Australian Space Park is envisaged as a Common User Facility, not just for these four tenants but also for the wider space industry, aimed at utilising state-of-the-art space manufacturing equipment. Has the minister consulted with stakeholders and industry to determine the type of equipment to be placed in the Common User Facility? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I think those discussions are ongoing to make sure that we are futureproofing. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Has the minister consulted with any of the defence primes in relation to what facilities they might expect or wish for at the Australian Space Park? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Again, those discussions are ongoing. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Regarding the Australian Space Park, can the minister provide an update on when construction may commence for the Australian Space Park? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Given the negotiations are live at present, we will not answer that question just yet. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I can understand that. I will watch with interest. I may have to ask it at the next estimates. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: We may have to invite you to the opening, you are showing such great interest. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I would appreciate that. That would be fantastic. Can the minister explain in terms of the actual operating model itself whether you have had discussions around—Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 163 describes a sustainable operating model for the Australian Space Park. What does the minister mean by a sustainable operating model? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will ask the chief executive to answer. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: In relation to the South Australian Space Industry Centre, on which Defence SA takes the lead, the negotiation process is still within Trade and Investment. However, Trade and Investment, with our support, has been running an EOI process to actually establish an operating model. There was public consultation over the last few months, with responses from industry and other players on what they would like to see in that operating model. That will now go forward into a process that will narrow down those operating models. Government will then make a decision on what operating model it wishes to go to market with. I envisage that will happen during the course of this year. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Very recently, it has been announced that out of New South Wales there are plans to develop what they refer to as an Australian satellite manufacturing hub, which is again part of the modern manufacturing initiative, which the Australian Space Park was successful in also bidding into. This New South Wales version has companies such as Electro Optic Systems, UTS Tech Lab and Gilmour Space. They have collaborated with their government. What is the minister doing to ensure that we still retain first mover advantage and keep attracting investment and manufacturing to our Australian Space Park? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Our expectation is that a model of having a Common User Facility that any companies can come along and use will be an ongoing advantage. Although we do not have direct line of sight into the way in which others are designed, our understanding is that they are far more tightly controlled and therefore possibly less attractive. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Referring to Budget Paper 5, page 23, the budget initiatives, the efficiency cuts, the operating efficiencies target reduction of $233,000 per annum for 2022-23, increasing to $417,000 from 2025-26, can the minister advise where you expect the efficiences to come from? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The chief executive is working through that at present, but his advice to me thus far does not anticipate it being particularly problematic to look at some efficiencies in operating. We do not expect to shed staff in any numbers, if at all. We will be able to manage that efficiency dividend. It is a very modest one and part of the overall contribution to the government's efforts not only to meet election commitments but also to maintain a sound budget bottom line. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Going back to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 160 mentions the success of the Defence and Space Landing Pad. COVID did make it difficult for companies to relocate or establish themselves here while borders were closed. The budget line says full occupancy has now been achieved. Does this mean that, now that borders have opened up, all the companies are actually physically located here that have been successful? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will invite the chief executive to answer. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: We have effectively a conveyor belt of companies moving through the Landing Pad. Some of those have established operations within the state; some of those have moved on to other things and made other decisions. Interestingly, UK companies are now showing interest again. In the last few months, we are seeing a bit of an uptake in UK companies, so I would envisage we will be moving more people out and backfilling those with more companies from the UK. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: On the same topic, same line item, can the minister advise whether the Defence and Space Landing Pad based at Lot Fourteen will continue to be funded in 2020-23 and over the forward estimates? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, we will continue to. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister confirm the amount of funding will be what was previously allocated in the forward estimates for 2022-23 in the previous budget, which was $375,000 and $190,000 in 2023-24? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The Landing Pad will continue to operate as it operates now. If it is possible to get a bit of efficiency there, rather than somewhere else, and it is a genuine efficiency, then why would not we take it? I am not going to impose anything rigid on the chief executive as a result of an estimates discussion, but there is every intention to keep the Landing Pad operating as it does. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: I have a similar question but for a different program, referring to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 161. Can the minister confirm whether funding for the Line Zero initiative to support the establishment of accelerated research to commercial operations, based out at Flinders, which I think you did mention before, will be continued this year and into the forward estimates? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: They remain fully funded. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: On another program, Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 163, the SASAT-1 or Kanyini, can the minister advise if funding for this program will continue in 2022-23? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is fully funded. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Terrific. Can the minister advise when the manufacturing of Kanyini will be finished? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will invite the chief executive. Mr PRICE House of Assembly Mr PRICE: We are anticipating that it will be launched in calendar year 2023. We have suffered some delays as a result of component shortages due to COVID, but the program now has been through several design reviews and construction is underway. We look forward to testing it at the end of this year/early next year. A launch window has been identified that we are aiming toward. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: On a similar topic on same budget paper and page, the company Southern Launch were looking to do three test launches at Whalers Way near Port Lincoln, the first of which was late last year. It got the whole way through the launch protocols, but unfortunately it had an issue with the rocket itself failing to launch. Can the minister update the committee on when the next launch will be? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: They are still waiting for their space agency licence, so although I think they are keen I do not know that they know when they will do it next. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Can the minister advise whether there is anything at a state level from an environmental point of view that is holding them up applying to this launch? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Not for the test launch. There will be an application in train for the larger launch pad, but they have the approval they need for the test launch. From the state perspective, it is the Australian licence they need. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Fantastic, excellent. On another program, Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 164, the Mission Control and Space Discovery Centre, can the minister advise that the funding arrangements for both the Mission Control and Space Discovery Centre will be in this budget and also in the forward estimates? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The original funding is preserved in the budget. Our obligation is, however, time limited. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 156, objectives, mentions 'successful' in the highlights in working to grow both the space and defence industries through sector plans. The space sector has a plan for a 10-year growth target of 5.8 per cent, so that by 2030 the space sector will contribute $250 million to gross state product. Can the minister advise what grants or other are being planned to support this government's target? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The effort that we are undertaking at the moment will be maintained, with the aim of continuing to grow and support the sector. Mr TELFER House of Assembly Mr TELFER: What grants are planned for local regional areas that support key space infrastructure, such as Peterborough, Mount Mary, Ceduna and Port Lincoln? How does the state government plan to promote space development in South Australia's regional areas to ensure there is a spread of the grant pie, I guess you would call it? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: There are not any specific grant programs such as you might imagine a proportion would go out to the regions. However, we are engaging with the regions, including a meeting recently with Port Lincoln council, to discuss how we can convey the future of the space industry to people in the Port Lincoln council region, so we are likely to do some work with them on that. There is no grant funding pool to build space infrastructure. It has just been pointed out to me that with Kanyini there will be test kits going out to schools, and we will be specifically engaging with the regions to make sure that the kids in schools are feeling connected to that. Mr PATTERSON House of Assembly Mr PATTERSON: As a final question, I imagine, I refer to Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, page 163 regarding the Australian Space Agency. A target of the South Australian Space Industry Centre is to continue to collaborate with the Australian Space Agency to support its strategy, initiatives and activities to stimulate the South Australian space ecosystem. Further to that, in March this year, former federal Minister Andrews tasked the Australian Space Agency to develop a unified national space strategy to shape the sector for the next two decades. Can the minister advise what the department is doing to provide input into the formulation of this strategy, which is anticipated to provide a schedule of space programs and investment opportunities for the federal government? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The Space Agency is undertaking an engagement round. The agency, Defence SA, is engaged in that and through Defence SA is bringing in a number of industry partners who might be interested in engaging further so that the information is flowing through. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Sadly, the allotted time having expired, I declare the examination of the proposed payments for Defence SA complete. I thank the minister and her adviser for their contributions. I also thank committee members. I now lay before the committee a draft report for Estimates Committee A. That report details what we have discussed through the whole five days. Mr ODENWALDER House of Assembly Mr ODENWALDER: I move: That the draft report be the report of the committee. Motion carried. At 17:01 the committee concluded.