Estimates Committee A Fifty-Third Parliament, Second Session (53-2) 53 2 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Estimates Vote Department of State Development, $672,950,000 Administered Items for the Department of State Development, $10,448,000 Department of State Development, $672,950,000 Administered Items for the Department of State Development, $10,448,000 Membership: Membership: Mr Pisoni substituted for Ms Sanderson. Mr Gardner substituted for Ms Redmond. Minister: Minister: Hon. S.E. Close, Minister for Education and Child Development, Minister for Higher Education and Skills. Departmental Advisers: Departmental Advisers: Mr R. Murt, Chief Executive Officer, TAFE SA. Mr J. O'Dea, Chief Financial Officer, TAFE SA. Dr D. Russell, Chief Executive, Department of State Development. Ms A. Reid, Deputy Chief Executive, Department of State Development. Mr R. Janssan, Executive Director, Corporate, Department of State Development. Mr J. King, Executive Officer, Skills and Employment, Department of State Development. Ms P. Chau, Director, Finance, Department of State Development. Mr C. Zielinski, Director, Planning and Investment, Department of State Development. Mr M. Petrovski, Adviser, Department for Education and Child Development. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I declare the proposed payments open for examination and refer members to the agency statements in Volume 4. I call on the minister to introduce her advisers. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I also have a brief opening statement. I will start with the statement and then introduce the advisers, if that is acceptable? The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Yes. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The importance of higher education in South Australia is reflected in the existence of the Higher Education Committee, which is chaired by the Premier and covers three portfolios—higher education and skills, science and innovation and international students. Through this committee, the South Australian government is driving and championing agreed projects with the higher education sector in areas such as knowledge exchange, defence and research collaboration. There have been many successes in this field, but also many challenges, particularly as the vocational education and training sector goes through significant changes. It is important, however, that we recognise that those challenges exist in the context of a VET sector that provides a significant and important service to our community. In particular, as Australia's largest stand-alone TAFE, TAFE SA continues to support the economic and social development of South Australia through the provision of vocational education and training and higher education that fosters employment, enhances career options and underpins sustainable industry growth. TAFE SA is being supported to transition to a more innovative flexible training model and to become sustainable in the competitive training market. This transition is significant and comes with many challenges which, of course, deserve scrutiny. However, it is important to distinguish between legitimate security and dressing up isolated pieces of information as corporate disorder merely for the benefit of pointscoring. That approach risks the credibility of the organisation that provides an important service for South Australians. More broadly, as our economy transitions, the government is ensuring that we are providing training, skills development and employment support that help South Australians gain sustainable jobs. WorkReady, announced in April 2015, builds on feedback from stakeholders, the independent evaluation of Skills for All, advice from the Training and Skills Commission and a review of red tape in the South Australian VET system. WorkReady responds to the needs of strategic industry sectors that support economic transformation and jobs in priority areas for government. It has been designed to improve training completions and support direct connections between training, skills formation and jobs. Training courses and employment projects directly linked to jobs outcomes are being given priority. The reforms are being introduced gradually to enable providers and clients to transition to the new settings with minimal disruption. In 2015-16, more than $300 million was invested in skills and employment services in South Australia. I would like to take a brief opportunity to reflect on some of the highlights in this portfolio. The Regional Summit: under the Charter for Stronger Regional Policy, we held the second annual Regional Summit in Mount Gambier in May in conjunction with the universities. The theme of this second summit was the role of entrepreneurship in regional economic development. The summit included sessions led by academics from South Australia's world-class universities on innovation, transformation and collaboration, as well as the opportunity to hear about regional entrepreneurial success stories. The summit was attended by more than 120 representatives from regional businesses, regional development associations, local government and higher education providers. Scholarships: the South Australian government manages a number of higher education scholarships in the name of outstanding South Australians, reflecting their interests and expertise. Scholarships are aimed at the Indigenous, people with disabilities, and rural and remote South Australians, easing the financial burden of the recipients and building the capacity of traditionally under-represented cohorts. These include the Bob Such Memorial Scholarship at Flinders University, providing 12 scholarships annually, targeted to those experiencing financial hardship, and the Graeme Hugo Memorial Scholarship at the University of Adelaide, with one scholarship available annually. The Sir Eric Neal Scholarship (fortunately not memorial) is for one recipient annually to support regional and remote South Australians studying engineering at Flinders University. The Sir Charles Bright Scholarship supports four students with disabilities annually in post-secondary education, and the Terry Roberts Memorial Scholarship supports one disadvantaged Indigenous higher education student with study and living expenses. In addition, a cost-neutral placement program, in conjunction with Flinders University's existing Washington Internship program, has been established to enable various departments to place six highly skilled public policy students for a period of 15 days. Regrettably, I am going to cease reading my opening speech as I am going to start coughing too much to answer questions. However, I will seek to introduce the people sitting at my table. On my right is Robin Murt, who is the Chief Executive of TAFE SA; on my left is Alex Reid, a Deputy Chief Executive in the Department of State Development; and on her left is Dr Don Russell, the Chief Executive of the Department of State Development. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: The member for Unley. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: For my first question I would like to take you to page 114 of Agency Statements, Volume 4. It refers to FTEs in the department, which I take it would also include TAFE staff. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I believe that is correct. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: In the Budget and Finance Committee meeting of 18 July, it was established that Jadynne Harvey had his contract terminated by Mr Murt. Minister, are you able to explain what was the basis of that termination? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: As the member will be well aware, as minister I am not responsible for the employment of people below chief executive level. Even in that case, usually chief executives are hired when contracted to the Premier. I am prepared to allow Robin Murt to answer the question briefly, but it is not quite germane to the budget line. Mr MURT House of Assembly Mr MURT: In short, I made a reassessment of the executive position and took the decision to terminate Jadynne's contract on the basis of the skills that are needed to take the role forward and the alignment of Jadynne's skills to the renewed specification. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Minister, did you inquire as to the reason why Jadynne Harvey was employed in the first instance? That contract had been closed. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I am not certain that we need to go down that particular path. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: This relates to FTEs. It was a full-time position— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: We have already discussed why he has gone. The Hon. P. CAICA House of Assembly The Hon. P. CAICA: It is a long bow. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: It is not a long bow, because according to the Budget and Finance papers he was paid out up to about three months to four months per year remaining on his $200,000 a year salary, so it is very relevant as to how he got the job in the first place— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I think— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: —and why it is— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! I think the thing that is relevant is the payout figure, definitely, so can we have some more information on that, perhaps. Or you can take it on notice, that's fine. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will just clarify, so it might be useful scene setting, that, under the act, 'the minister may not give a direction to TAFE SA relating to the employment, transfer, remuneration, discipline or termination of employment of a particular employee of the chief executive'. Given that this is my estimates, I do not think it is necessary or appropriate to follow this line for too long. The question that was just asked has been taken on notice at a previous Budget and Finance Committee and will be answered in due course in that forum. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Minister, I am not sure that I find it credible that you would not be aware of the circumstances, that you would not have been briefed on the circumstances of this issue, considering that Mr Harvey was employed, without an advertised position, to a new position that was created for Mr Harvey, according to FOI documents that we have, and that have been addressed in previous committees, both the committee into Skills for All and the Budget and Finance Committee on the 18^th. Are you saying that you have not been briefed on the circumstances that led to both the appointment and the firing of Mr Harvey? The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I think the question has been taken on notice for as much as the minister can help. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: I have asked a question, and that question has not been asked before, so I do not know how it can be taken on notice, as I have just asked the question right now. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I think what we are getting at, when you consider the amount of time that you have for this whole portfolio area, the minister is going to give as much information as she can on notice. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I am not responsible for the employment of people below the chief executive and I do not interest myself in them. There were a couple of executives who have left recently, I cannot recall under which circumstances, and one of them was Mr Harvey. I do not recall the briefing about that. I certainly did not inquire specifically, and it is not my business to, either. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: So you did not seek a briefing as to why a three-year contract— The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I have given my answer to the question. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: —that cost— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I think we need to move on; she has answered that question. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: —probably up to $100,000 to break. That's of no interest to the minister. Is that what you're saying? The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Member for Unley— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: I just want to clarify that that is of no interest to the minister. Minister, there is $57 million of cuts— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Member for Unley— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: —in the training budget this year and you are not interested in $100,000. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Member for Unley, the table is calling you to order and I must ask you to move on. Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! Let’s move on. No need for any further comment; we are just moving on. Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! Members are called to order. Member for Unley, moving on. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: The Budget and Finance Committee— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Is this the same page, same line? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: This is for FTEs—raised the $50,000 bonus payment that is in Mr Murt’s contract. Are you able, minister, to elaborate on what basis the bonus is paid? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Are you specifically talking about a bonus for— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: For Mr Murt as the Chief Executive Officer of— The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I personally was not party to the signing of the contract so I have no direct knowledge. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Mr Murt must have some idea as to how he qualifies for that $50,000. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: There are a number of opportunities in this parliament for questions to be directed at TAFE. This is the estimates committee for me. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Yes, and the budget papers refer to TAFE. Your budget papers here, minister, say 'vocational education and training provided by TAFE SA and other registered training organisations', so you are here to answer. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: What page are you looking at? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: I refer to page 114, sub-program 12.1: Training, Employment Skills and Higher Education. So, you are responsible—the Public Sector Act says that you are responsible—for TAFE. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Whether or not you choose to answer questions is your business, of course, but you are responsible for TAFE. I am asking you, minister: on what basis is the $50,000 bonus paid to Mr Murt? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will take that question on notice; because it was not part of the original contract, it is not familiar to me. I will return with a response. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: On the same budget page, are you able to define the split between TAFE and DSD in the estimated, actual and budget results for the cost of the programs on that page? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, we are. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: What page are you on? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: One page 114—always happy to help, Madam Chair. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: That is good. Unfortunately for you, the numbers on the different volumes coincide, and that is unfortunate, and you do have your back to me most of the time, in fairness. I cannot see your lips move. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Can I confirm that it is net cost of services, FTEs, or both, in which you are interested? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: The share of that budget. You have the actual figure in 2014-15, the budgeted figure for 2015-16, the estimated figure for 2015-16 and then the budgeted figure for 2016-17. Can I have a breakdown of how much of that is for TAFE and how much of it is for DSD. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: If we look at the 2016-17 budget figure you are referring to, the combined is $298,822,000. The TAFE share of that, net cost of providing services is $206,878,000 for 2016-17. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: How much of the TAFE share is funded from WorkReady? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is $207 million in the budget for 2016-17, which is the training fund to TAFE. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: And the estimated result for 2015-16, I would like it for all those years. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: If we work back the initial figures I was giving you, the estimated result (bearing in mind that it is only estimated), the net cost of providing services combined was $356,187,000, and the TAFE component of that is $208,662,000. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: But my question, minister, was how much was from WorkReady. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: And then the component of that, which was from the training fund, is $224 million. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: The training fund is WorkReady. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: We do try to listen to the full answer before we go to the next question. Can the minister complete the answer before going to the next question? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: And the remainder of the funding, how much comes from DSD and how much comes from Treasury? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is a government allocation after the appropriation to— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Yes, but I am asking from where? Obviously, DSD provide— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Member for Unley, could we just let her finish her answer before you then interrogate the answer. That is all we are asking. You will be giving us the opportunity to do that. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: As I am sure the member is aware, Treasury allocates funding on a whole of portfolio basis, and then the TAFE element is allocated. Just to make sure that we are talking about the same matters, the figures I was giving you that were combined and then the element that was TAFE refer to the net cost of providing services. The $224 million is a training fund amount, and it is larger than the net cost of services— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: I am not quite sure I understand that. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: —because that does not take into account other income. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: My question was: how much does TAFE receive from DSD or Treasury over and above the money it receives from WorkReady? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The total appropriation that goes to TAFE is $233 million, of which $224 million is from the training fund—the lion's share. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: And the DSD/Treasury make-up of the remainder? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is $233 million— Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Who funds your TVSPs? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Treasury separately funds TVSPs. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: So I am asking if that figure is included in your training figures or is that a separate figure and, if it is, how much is it? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The only additional source of income from Treasury, from government to TAFE, that is not listed in that $233 million, of which $224 million is training fund, would be for TVSPs. They are commonly done centrally across government. Otherwise, that captures the additional appropriation to them on top of the WorkReady funding. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Are TVSPs determined by Treasury, or are they determined by TAFE? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: As with other departments, there are guidelines for going through the TVSP process, or a separation process. TAFE comply with those guidelines and Treasury reimburse for the funds. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Are you able to advise how much of TAFE's allocation, through WorkReady or directly from DSD, is to cover TAFE's community service obligations? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: It is $16.8 million in the 2015-16 budget. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Can I have that to correlate with the same tables that you have on page 114? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Sorry, which do you want to correlate? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: For each of the columns that appear on page 114, which are the 2016-17 and 2015-16 budgets, estimated result and the 2014-15 actual. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: If you look at the expenses line under the estimated result in the budget paper, it is $482,449,000. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: What page are you looking at? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Page 114. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: In the column across, at Expenses. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: What was that figure again? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: If you look at the figure that reads $482,449,000, in that is the $16,861,000 that is the community services component within the act. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Yes, so I am just asking for that for each of those columns. I am obviously happy for you to bring that back. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, I think it is probably simpler if I bring it back. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Are you able to advise the house how the community obligation costs are actually calculated? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Year on year, it is a process of negotiation although, in fact, it ends up being a pretty similar figure and process of discussion and negotiation on what the suite of offerings is. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: What action did TAFE take, based on the crown law advice they received in 2014 that their community service obligations cost factor was unclear, so they were at risk of a challenge by a competitor through the ACCC for using unfair practices because they were not able to satisfactorily determine the difference between commercial operations at TAFE and the community services obligations of TAFE? Has that been corrected? Mr MURT House of Assembly Mr MURT: Since that time, there has been a lot of work done in terms of the cost structure between commercial and non-commercial and, in your terms, community service obligations. We have been able to clearly demonstrate that we satisfy the competitive neutrality-type arrangements in that space because of that. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Are assets and/or staff treated in the same way for community service obligations as they are for commercial operations? Mr MURT House of Assembly Mr MURT: The staff and assets? Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Yes, is it the same set of accounting? Are there any factors that might make a difference to the cost of a unit of community service as opposed to a unit of— Mr MURT House of Assembly Mr MURT: No, they are treated in a similar way between those two areas of distinction. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Are you able to explain, minister, how TAFE will look in 2019 when VET funding becomes fully contestable? What will its role be, and how will it deliver training? Also, how many sites and staff do you anticipate TAFE will have in 2019? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: We are clearly working on a transition through the process of WorkReady. In the period of 2015 to 2017, essentially, the majority of new places in training will go to TAFE. From 2017-18, TAFE will start to increase the contestability and, therefore, reduce the reliance of having a majority. It will be from 2018-19 when we will have the commercial courses being fully contestable. During that period, what we will do is work through which courses are to be regarded as fully contestable. When we are at a point where there is that contestability, it will be up to the students to choose. It does not necessarily mean, therefore, that TAFE will not retain the same number of students. What it means is that they will need to compete for them with RTOs. It is therefore difficult to give a firm shape to what TAFE will look like because it partially depends on how successful it is. One of the concerns I have about some of the commentary about TAFE is that it undermines its capacity to become competitive in the future. While, of course, with government funding being so significantly spent in that department, in that statutory authority, we do have to be absolutely transparent. At the same time, we have to bear in mind that we are preparing this organisation to compete with others, and we want to make sure that it is able to retain its well-deserved reputation for quality. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Can you explain how the Teach Out program works, minister? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: One of the reasons that there is a teach-out provision—and I am happy to turn to Mr Murt to give some more detail of how it is managed within TAFE, but it is not exclusively the province of TAFE—is that where national training packages change and where a course is no longer going to be available as a training product, there is an agreement of teaching out (grandfathering is another term) for those students who are enrolled to enable them to complete the course. TAFE has more students, and therefore it has custom and practice in how to manage that, but it is not exclusively an experience for TAFE students. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: How many TAFE students are in the Teach Out program at the moment? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will bring that answer back. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: How many Teach Out students are travelling interstate as part of that program? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will bring that back as well, if any. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Has TAFE signed a memorandum of administrative arrangement with the minister or DSD regarding WorkReady TVSPs for the arrangement between DSD and TAFE? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The only one that is currently under negotiation is for 2016-17, for the non-commercial component. To my knowledge, there is no administrative agreement around TVSPs. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Minister, again this goes back to FTEs: the enterprise bargaining agreement, what is your role in the negotiations? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I overlapped; I was interested, although from a reasonable distance, as the minister for public sector, leading up to becoming Minister for Higher Education and Skills, and at the point where I picked up higher education and skills I lost public sector, and that became minister Rau's responsibility. While I meet regularly with unions that are representing workers in all of the workplaces for which I have responsibility, ultimately the enterprise agreement is managed by the Minister for the Public Sector. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: You say you have met with the AEU? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, I meet with the AEU regularly, and with the PSA, although that is not so relevant to this one. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Have they briefed you on why the EBA is taking so long? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I am completely unsurprised by enterprise bargaining processes taking a long time. In my limited experience from being public sector minister from 2014 to the beginning of this year, they tend to take a long time and there are always multiple reasons for that. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: When did the enterprise bargaining agreement negotiations begin? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I cannot recall. I do recall having a meeting with minister Gago at the time—myself, as public sector minister. I believe that was in 2014, but it may have been 2015. I can find out. And whether that was actually the beginning, I am not sure. It may have predated the election, I am not sure; I do not have a line of sight to that. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Is it the intention of the enterprise bargaining agreement to allow the government to implement its forced redundancies policy in TAFE? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The capacity to have an employment ending termination through redundancy is the government policy, and we expect that to appear in each of the enterprise agreements negotiated post 2014. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Is TAFE exempt from the 1.5 per cent Treasury cap on pay increases? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I would direct your question to the Treasurer. I think it is a standard government position that sits across all that is the Treasurer's province and minister Rau's province, not mine. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Has the AEU advised you of any concern about the 1.5 per cent cap? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I am almost certain they have not raised it with me since the budget. I do not recall meeting with them since the budget. Mr DULUK House of Assembly Mr DULUK: Just quickly looking at the performance indicators, how many student enrolments are there currently as at 30June at the Tonsley site? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: What page number are you referring to? Mr DULUK House of Assembly Mr DULUK: It would be within the Performance indicators, Budget Paper 4, Volume 4, pages 117 and 118. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Student hours delivered at TAFE SA's Tonsley campus have increased every year since opening in semester 1 2014. Mr DULUK House of Assembly Mr DULUK: Just how many persons. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I will give them to you. The reason I want this on the record is that it is highly damaging to a good organisation for it to be accused of having absolutely no students. It is not the case. Mr DULUK House of Assembly Mr DULUK: I have not made that accusation. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I am certainly not accusing you of making that statement, but it has been made— Mr DULUK House of Assembly Mr DULUK: I am just asking a question. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! The minister has the floor. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: —and so I would like to give a reasonable answer to this so that I can be on the record. I appreciate the latitude of the Chair for that. In 2015, TAFE SA delivered 6,363 enrolments to a total of 5,790 new and continuing students at this site, an increase of 37 per cent on the 2014 enrolment, which was 4,633 enrolments, or 40 per cent on the 2014 student number, which was 4,082 students. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: I take you back to page 114, sub-program, referring back to TAFE. Are you able to update the parliament with the most current board fees for board members on the TAFE SA Board, and can you explain why there is an annual fee and also a retainer fee? The latest I have here is dated 30 June 2015, so I am interested to know whether there has been an increase in that time. The annual fee was $24,000 for a board member plus a retainer fee of $23,000, and for the chair, $37,000, and a retainer fee of $48,000. Are you able to advise why there is a retainer fee? The Economic Development Board, for example, does not have a retainer fee. I find it quite hard to find any other board that has a retainer fee. Could you explain what the retainer fee is and why the board was set up with a retainer fee? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The figures that you have cited are the same figures as I have, so that has not changed. The reason for creating a retainer fee or attraction retention allowance is prior to my time. I am happy to bring back an answer on that, but I would point out that what we are doing and what we are asking of this board is to take a very large institution that has been traditionally simply publicly funded and make it into an institution that is capable of being competitive with RTOs. We need this organisation to remain successful and strong because it provides such an important role for South Australians across the state, and it does not surprise me that we would want to have reasonable remuneration for the board members. The logic of how that was structured is prior to my time and, as I said, I will bring back an answer if there is one to be found. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Minister, were you responsible for recommending former CFMEU national secretary Trevor Smith to become a board member? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes, I was. That was a very recent appointment. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: What does he bring to the board? You have to look that up, do you? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I have a list of what Trevor has done, so I can say to you he has been hardworking. Mr PISONI House of Assembly Mr PISONI: Just for Hansard, he is so outstanding that the minister— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: No need for 'just for Hansard' anything. We are getting you an answer. The next time you speak is to ask another question. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Trevor Smith is someone who— Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: —has worked through the union movement in, I believe, the forestry area in particular and has always been concerned with the training of workers for working in industry, has enormous experience and was selected in a decision at cabinet to be appointed. That was subsequently ratified, of course, by the Governor. Ms CHAPMAN House of Assembly Ms CHAPMAN: I would like to ask questions in relation to TAFE, minister, if I may. I refer to pages 114-15 in relation to the transfer of TAFE and the sites, both from the Department of State Development to TAFE and also from TAFE to Renewal SA. I have just come from meetings of committees on Renewal SA. In the next quarter of this year, they are to receive $650 million worth of TAFE assets. Whilst I appreciate you are attending to the general operational management via the board and the new structure of TAFE, what has been advised to us in that meeting is that the $650 million worth of assets relates to 27 sites which will be transferred in the next few months. There are various financial aspects of that, but TAFE itself will not be left in any poorer position. They will just be paying the $20 million rent, etc. What came about from that information was that in fact there are other assets, some sites that TAFE is retaining. Can you provide a list to us of what they are and why you are keeping those, because the reason for transferring all the rest of them is that they are supposed to have all the expertise in managing assets? I am just puzzled as to what you are keeping. I am happy for you to provide a list. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: I have a list of sites that will be retained, and it is by the Department of State Development rather than by TAFE. TAFE has never had control and ownership of the sites. I have here Parafield campus—and I do not know if you have visited it but it is part of the Parafield Airport and is highly specialised—Urrbrae, Kangaroo Island, Wudinna, Bordertown, Bordertown Meatworks, Murray Bridge Meatworks, and Lobethal. There will be reasons for each of those because generally the proposition is to take these sites and give them to Renewal SA, and minister Mullighan will have discussed them, I am sure, at length with you. So, I will obtain reasons for each of those and provide them to you. Ms CHAPMAN House of Assembly Ms CHAPMAN: Reasons why each of those are being kept, yes, thank you. I assume that TAFE will just continue to pay rental payments to the Department of State Development on those. The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: Yes. I think it is possible, and I will substantiate this in a proper response, that some of those are handled by DSD but are in fact leased themselves, and that is why we have not transferred them. Whatever those leasing arrangements are, they will simply continue but they will be managed by DSD. Ms CHAPMAN House of Assembly Ms CHAPMAN: The other item that was raised was that on 11 July, Mr Reynolds from Treasury spoke about this proposal from their perspective and the financial arrangements, so again I do not need to bother you with those, but in his evidence he said: …I know the TAFE board is discussing which sites it wants to do and what consolidation it might do. If it chooses to no longer use one of those sites, then it's a matter for Renewal SA to go to market in the normal way, and it would sell and make the return to government for the sale. At this stage, minister Mullighan has indicated that he does not have any detail of any advice to Renewal SA of what TAFE is considering there. What is TAFE's position on that? Have you made any decisions? What sites have you been discussing? The Hon. S.E. CLOSE House of Assembly The Hon. S.E. CLOSE: The member will be aware that, in this sense, the transfer of ownership from DSD to Renewal makes no difference. It certainly makes no difference to the experience for TAFE. I see we are just about to run out of time, but the work TAFE is doing on which sites it operates through—and there are some 250 sites it operates through, so it is not simply campuses that the government owns and puts it in—is still being worked through. There have been some changes. Gawler has already been discussed. There will be some other changes that will occur and TAFE will liaise with Renewal SA as that becomes necessary. But what is important is that that is not about withdrawing presence of TAFE; it is about making sure that we are using the best locations best possible and not spending money that is not necessary but that we are reaching students. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: The member for Wright, did you have a question? The Hon. J.M. RANKINE House of Assembly The Hon. J.M. RANKINE: I just wanted to say before we finish, as the government side has graciously given up their time to ask questions today, I will be putting my questions on notice. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I declare the examination of the proposed payments adjourned until Monday. Thank you everyone for your attendance today and cooperation. At 14:01 the committee adjourned to Monday 1 August 2016 at 09:00.