Estimates Committee A Fifty-Third Parliament, First Session (53-1) 53 1 Parliament of South Australia House of Assembly published Estimates Vote Department for Communities and Social Inclusion, $998,989,000 Administered Items for the Department for Communities and Social Inclusion, $184,930,000 Department for Communities and Social Inclusion, $998,989,000 Administered Items for the Department for Communities and Social Inclusion, $184,930,000 Membership: Membership: Dr McFetridge substituted for Mr van Holst Pellekaan. Mr Pengilly substituted for Mr Tarzia. Mr Goldsworthy substituted for Mr Speirs. Minister: Minister: Hon. M.L.J. Hamilton-Smith, Minister for Investment and Trade, Minister for Defence Industries, Minister for Veterans' Affairs. Departmental Advisers: Departmental Advisers: Mr P. Williams, Director, Financial Services, Department of Treasury and Finance. Mr P. Sykes, Acting Section Head, Veterans’ Affairs, Department of Treasury and Finance. Mr J. Chapman, Chief of Staff. Ms J. Barbaro, Ministerial Adviser. Mr B. Page, Ministerial Adviser. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I declare the proposed payments open for examination. Do you have an opening statement, minister, or are we going straight to questions? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: No, I hope to go straight to questions. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Member for Morphett, do you have a statement or straight to questions? Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Straight to questions, thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to say we will all miss Bill Denny, but he is going on to greener pastures, I understand. Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, pages 107 and 108, is what we are referring to. Under the Description/objective of Veterans' Affairs, it includes health, transport, disability and mental health, so it is talking about all across-government services to veterans. Minister, can you give the committee and the veterans a commitment that the Repatriation General Hospital is not in any danger of closing? You probably know about it, but the health minister certainly would not give us that assurance, and that was very disappointing. The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: The Repatriation Hospital comes under the health minister. You have asked him the question. I am not going to start foraying into other ministers' areas of responsibility. I would simply say that I am not aware of any plans to close or privatise the Repat at this particular juncture, so I think there is a bit of speculation going on. But this is a question for the health minister. The Repat performs a very important service for veterans and it is valued, but I think the opposition will have to refer any questions about the health plan and the future design of our health system to the Minister for Health, because he is working under very difficult conditions at the moment, given the very, very significant reductions in funding that have been extracted from the state budget by the commonwealth at the recent federal budget. I know it is a struggle, so he is balancing a few balls in the air. You will have to refer any questions about the Repat to him. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Just on that, minister, you have had no discussions at all? This has not been raised with you in any forums about either closing or downgrading the Repat? The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Member for Morphett, bear in mind that we started late and the minister has already answered that question. You were here during the health lines when the minister made it very clear— Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: This is a very important issue for veterans, Madam Chair. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I am not saying it is not, but we only have a certain amount of time, and if this is your last question on this particular effort, that would be great. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: I will simply say— Members interjecting: Mr GOLDSWORTHY House of Assembly Mr GOLDSWORTHY: Madam Chairman— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: We have actually talked about health and you were in the room when it was made clear to you about health. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: With respect, Chair, the reference is under Description/objectives, 'a central contact point for information about the state government's services to veterans across departments, including health, transport, disability and mental health.' The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Yes, well, I understand all of that. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: So I think these are fair enough questions to ask of the minister. Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Again, if we could just remind— Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: With respect, Chair, surely it is across government— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: You are the one wasting time now. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: —across departments. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: You are the one wasting time. Mr PENGILLY House of Assembly Mr PENGILLY: He can ask as many questions as he likes about it. Members interjecting: Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Look, for those who are new to the estimates process, read the process, read the— Mr PENGILLY House of Assembly Mr PENGILLY: Several hundred veterans in my electorate will be pretty happy to know. Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: I remind all members of 271 and ask them to treat the committee and the Chair with some respect. The minister is able to answer the question in the way he wishes. He has just done that. If you wish to pursue that, you are just going to be eating into the time in the other areas. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: It is my time. It is our time; that is our problem. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: That is entirely up to you, but the minister is entitled to answer the question— Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! Order! I will have to leave the room, and that would be a shame. The member for Morphett. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: I will move on. On a related issue then, and the same reference, that is 'a central contact point for information about the state government's services to veterans across departments, including health, transport, disability and mental health', and that is what it says under Description/objective. The question is: has the minister had discussions with the health minister to address the concerns expressed for the availability of services at the Repatriation General Hospital and the Lyell McEwin Hospital for 7RAR veterans, particularly mental health services? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: The absolute priority for me—I have said this to everyone in the portfolio, and I said it at quite a large public gathering at the Torrens Training Depot recently—is veterans' wellbeing: their health, their mental health, their welfare. I do not think there is any more important issue for veterans and their families than that so, to me, it is an absolute priority. I would be seeking to ensure that their physical and mental health, wellbeing and welfare, including the benefits they are paid by the commonwealth government, and what small amounts they receive from the state government through their associations, are attended to, so my focus is on that. In regard to questions about where they are treated, how they are treated and which particular hospital or health system or agency of the health system is there to care for them, I think they are questions better put to the health minister; he runs that system. My goal is to make sure that, when a veteran needs help for his physical or mental health care, there is a bed and a service there for him. A lot of veterans are on the gold card, as you know. A lot of them choose to use the private system. A lot of them go to general hospitals. They have a different range of choices. Some of them live in the country and some live in the city. I would be lobbying, as the veterans minister, to ensure that there is high-quality health care there for veterans wherever they live or work, but in regard to the details of how that is delivered, that is a better question for the health minister. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Thank you, minister. We will move on to the ANZAC Centenary Memorial Garden Walk project. Minister, can you confirm that the South Australian contribution to the ANZAC Centenary Memorial Garden Walk project is $3 million, and is the money budgeted for? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: Thanks for the question. The 100-year anniversary of World War I is going to be a real centrepiece for the next few years in the veterans portfolio. Work on how South Australia should commemorate the centenary of ANZAC began in 2008, when the government of South Australia created the Veterans Advisory Council, comprising 13 members. Sir Eric Neal AC CVO does a wonderful job as chair, and I thank him on behalf of all South Australians. Of course, an important part of that is the program to support that centenary, which includes $3 million for South Australia's contribution to the ANZAC Centenary Memorial Garden Walk. It also includes a $250,000 increase in funding for the ANZAC Day Commemoration Fund for the 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17 and 2017-18 financial years, bringing the total of the fund to $350,000 per annum, and the establishment of an ANZAC centenary coordination unit. About the garden walk in particular, the proposal is to create an ANZAC Centenary Memorial Garden Walk that will physically and symbolically link the state's principal site of remembrance—the South Australian National War Memorial—to North Terrace, the Torrens Parade Ground and the Pathway of Honour. The project has been discussed since 2002, when it was considered as part of the North Terrace precinct upgrade. It was the preferred project of the Veterans Advisory Council when it considered the most appropriate way to fund the centenary of ANZAC. The then premier of South Australia, the Hon. Mike Rann MP, conveyed to the commonwealth government that the project was South Australia's number one ranked project for the centenary of ANZAC. The commonwealth government are aware this remains SA's preferred project, and have indicated they will consider funding 50 per cent of the project, once the Anzac Centenary Public Fund, chaired by Mr Lindsay Fox AC, has raised sufficient funds to enable such support. It was recently reported to Veterans SA that Mr Fox has raised over $4 million with pledges of $50 million, and he is confident of raising $100 million. That said, as this fund needs to cover the entire nation, it is still unknown if and when the commonwealth will be in a position to pay its $5 million contribution to the project. The ANZAC Centenary Memorial Garden Walk will be based on Kintore Avenue. The unique link created between SA's National War Memorial and the Torrens Parade Ground will signify remembrance. The proposal is costed at $9,725,000. It includes moving the eastern wall of Government House by 10 metres to create a memorial walk. The Premier has written to the commonwealth government seeking that $5 million contribution—50 per cent—and the Adelaide City Council is seeking $2 million, a 20 per cent contribution. The state government agency responsible for delivery of the required works is Renewal SA. A project advisory group has been established with membership from Renewal SA, Veterans SA, Government House and the Adelaide City Council. This advisory group met on 25 February, 12 March and 15 April 2014. The project will stand as a lasting tribute to our ANZAC tradition and it is hoped that the project will be completed prior to Remembrance Day 2015. Ms DIGANCE House of Assembly Ms DIGANCE: Just building on the member for Morphett's questioning on war memorial projects, I would like to ask the minister a question on a particular project. Budget Paper 4, Volume 1, Program 4, Veterans' Affairs. Can you tell the committee about the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander War Memorial project? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: I thank the member for her valuable question. After many years of hard work and fund raising, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander War Memorial was dedicated on Sunday 10 November 2013 by the former Governor-General, Her Excellency the Hon. Quentin Bryce AC, CVO, and the memorial committee chair, Ms Marj Tripp. I was proud to attend the ceremony with my nine-year-old son. He got to meet the Governor-General and present a wreath. Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal servicemen and servicewomen, past and present, joined Aboriginal elders and friends for this long-awaited and very special day. The beautiful sculptures atop this culturally sensitive and quite beautiful memorial will now stand forever as true testimony to the military service of our Aboriginal brothers and sisters in peace and war. The sculptures are particularly noteworthy, and sculptor Robert Hannaford has captured perfectly the spirit of strength, resolve and love of country in the figure of the Aboriginal solider in World War I uniform and of the servicewoman in World War II uniform. Both sculptures are truly beautiful works of art and are a credit to the designers Tony Rosella, Lee-ann Tjunypa Buckskin and Michelle Nikou. The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander War Memorial Committee is to be congratulated on its hard work that first commenced in 2007. They faced many difficulties and it is pleasing to see their dedication and persistence rewarded. It is the intention of the committee to ask the Adelaide City Council to apply for national recognition of the memorial thus making it the first and only national Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander war memorial. Such recognition is governed by commonwealth legislation and an application for national recognition cannot be made until the memorial is opened to the public. Sadly I was unable to attend the first Annual Aboriginal Veterans' Commemorative Service at this fine memorial on Friday 30 May 2014, but I would like to take an opportunity to congratulate the committee who oversaw the project and the fundraising committee co-chaired by the Hon. Sir Eric Neal AC, CVO, and Mr Bill Denny AM, BM, that raised over $1 million to make the project a reality. If you have not seen the memorial it is well worth a visit. It sits proudly alongside the Vietnam War Memorial adjacent to the Torrens Parade Ground. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Can the minister confirm that the $3 million for the ANZAC Centenary Memorial Garden Walk project has been budgeted for, because my understanding is that the federal government have the $5 million available to them? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: I will get back to the minister on this—to the shadow minister on this. My understanding is that because this project is contingent on— An honourable member interjecting: The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: It had a good ring about it, though—because this project is contingent upon commonwealth funding and also a contribution from the council and also the activities of Mr Lindsay Fox, my understanding is that the money is in headroom and that once the rest of the project comes together it will be spelled out, but I will seek advice from the agency on that and get back to the committee on that budget line and that amount. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Thank you, minister. I understand that the $10 million is broken down into $1.84 million for the War Memorial Plaza, $5.04 million for western Kintore Avenue main streetscape which includes moving the wall of Government House. Stage 3 is $0.7 million for Kintore Avenue War Memorial Plaza and then stage 4 is $1.12 million for the north-west streetscape. This was information given to me by the federal minister Hon. Michael Ronaldson in discussions. I came away from those discussions 100 per cent confident that the total cost of $9.725 million is what it is going to be and the $5 million is in place by the commonwealth. So as early a commitment as possible from the South Australian government and the City Council, should I say, with their $2 million would be greatly appreciated by all veterans. The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: In answer to that, I thank the shadow minister for those costings. They appear in the Memorial Garden Walk brochure which breaks up the five stages of the project as per his description. I think the government is still waiting for formal notification from the commonwealth that that money is there, so if the shadow minister has had a conversation with the minister in Canberra and he has indicated the money is available, could I ask him to ring him up and get him to send us a letter? Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: That is my clear understanding. Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: As soon as he does we can move on, but I understand— Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: And that would be assuming you have the $3 million too, Marty. The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: That is right. Yes, well, I am sure if the commonwealth come up with theirs. If I could pick up on an interjection by the member for Finniss, Madam Chair— The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: No, probably best not to. Member for Morphett. Members interjecting: The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: Order! Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Minister, I was extremely concerned to hear from a veteran who was extremely concerned about the lack of legislation protecting war memorials in South Australia. I understand this particular veteran has spoken to you about one particular war memorial and my advice to him was that, while there is a window of opportunity with the centenary of ANZAC, it might be a good time to introduce legislation to protect all war memorials. Has this issue been raised and where are we going? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: Yes, you might be referring to the Women's Memorial Playing Fields. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: I am, yes. The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: I have met with Mr Bruce Parker and others about that issue. It was on 8 July. You make a very good point. I think there is a case for better protection of that particular memorial and others. We need to ensure that they are protected in perpetuity for the purpose for which they were intended, and I think the Women's Memorial Playing Fields are a very good example and that they are not by some act of government lost as memorial playing fields or memorial gardens or memorials as the case may be. Yes, I have had meetings about that. I intend to pursue it and my agency is doing work on that subject. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: I am conscious of the time having to read omnibus questions, which will not take long. The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: No, I did not think so. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: I was very concerned to read—and this comes under the description/objectives again of health, mental health and disabilities. It does not have corrections in there but it is across government. I was concerned to read recently a report that—and I do not know how many veterans are in our gaols—veterans were being prevented by correctional services from seeing counsellors in prisons. Have you had any discussions with the correctional services minister about this issue that was raised publicly in the media on 8 July? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: Again, I am very glad that the shadow minister has raised this issue because as a matter of fact I have indeed and so have predecessors in this portfolio. I have only this week written to the corrections minister on the subject. I was advised when I became the Minister for Veterans' Affairs that this was an issue; it was included in the handover brief. It has been discussed at the Veterans' Advisory Council. We need to identify veterans in gaol, and there is a number, and there is no process at the moment for doing that that is working. At the request of the VAC, my predecessors wrote to the minister for correctional services on two occasions—minister Koutsantonis on 27 May 2011 and minister Rankine on 21 December 2011—requesting creation of a system that allows veterans to self-identify on first contact with the Correctional Services systems. There are some process issues that have not yet been worked through, and that is why I have raised it again, now that I am the minister, with the Minister for Correctional Services. If there is something we can do to help these offenders through their issues (because, often, they are linked to mental health issues and their service), we should. I am going to hang onto that issue and it is something I intend to raise with the Veterans Advisory Council. I am very happy to work with the shadow minister on it because it is an important issue. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Thank you, minister, and I cannot remember whether it was minister Koutsantonis at the time (I think it was), but I wrote to him on the same issue. I also wrote to the federal minister. I think it was a Labor minister then, and I cannot remember who it was, and it was very disappointing not to have the number of veterans in our gaols identified because, as you acknowledge, minister, there are some serious issues. Moving on, this really comes under total expenses, or net cost of providing services, shall we say. Can the minister provide the committee with details regarding the current rental situation for the various veterans organisations at the Torrens Parade Ground? Are they secure in their tenancies? Are rents going up or are other overheads being charged or likely to go up? The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH House of Assembly The Hon. M.L.J. HAMILTON-SMITH: I may have to get back to the shadow minister with details regarding the whole of the site. Can I say that I have had some meetings with the Soldier On program about access to Torrens Training Depot for their organisation, at the request of Lieutenant General Peter Leahy AC, who served as Chief of Army from 2002 to 2008. The purpose of the meeting was to seek state government support to facilitate the establishment of a more formal or permanent presence of Soldier On at Torrens Training Depot. There are other tenants down there—I think that is the point of your question—such as the RSL and various other service associations. What are their rental arrangements, or what are the arrangements of their tenancy? We have the RSL, the Royal Australian Air Force Association and the Vietnam Veterans Association, and History SA also have a space there. The number of veterans who served in recent conflicts abroad and protection operations who now reside in SA is about 3,500. One way or the other, they are all represented through these organisations at Torrens. It is owned by the state government and leased to these ex-service and state government organisations. It is managed by the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure. The tenants pay rent on a slightly reduced commercial basis. On-site facilities management is undertaken by Spotless facilities management. The allocation of office accommodation within Torrens Training Depot is not a function of the veterans affairs portfolio, but DPTI. I do not know whether DPTI have had their estimates, yet. If they have not, the shadow minister might like to inject that into DPTI's questioning; if not, I will certainly make sure I get back to him with some rental information. Dr McFETRIDGE House of Assembly Dr McFETRIDGE: Thank you, minister. If you can raise that with minister Mullighan that would be a great thing. To be sure, to be sure, I might read the omnibus questions in, but we have copious notes for Hansard. Take a breath everybody, hang on to your seats. 1.	Will the minister provide a detailed breakdown of expenditure on consultants and contractors above $10,000 in 2013-14 for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister listing the name of the consultant, contractor or service supplier, cost, work undertaken and method of appointment? 2.	For each department or agency reporting to the minister in 2013-14, please provide the number of public servants broken down into heads and FTEs that are (1) tenured and (2) on contract and, for each category, provide a breakdown of the number of (1) executives and (2) non-executives. 3.	In the financial year 2013-14, for all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, what underspending on projects and programs (1) was and (2) was not approved by cabinet for carryover expenditure in 2014-15? 4.	Between 30 June 2013 and 30 June 2014, will the minister list the job title and total employment cost of each position with a total estimated cost of $100,000 or more—(a) which has been abolished and (b) which has been created? 5.	For each year of the forward estimates, provide the name and budget of all grant programs administered by all departments and agencies reporting to the minister and, for 2013-14, provide a breakdown of expenditure on all grants administered by all departments and agencies reporting to the minister, listing the name of the grant recipient, the amount of the grant and the purpose of the grants and whether the grant was subject to a grant agreement as required by Treasurer's Instruction 15. 6.	For each department or agency reporting to the minister, what is the budget for targeted voluntary separation packages for the financial years 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17 and 2017-18? 7.	What is the title and total employment cost of each individual staff member in the minister's office as at 30 June 2014, including all departmental employees seconded to ministerial offices and ministerial liaison officers? The Chair House of Assembly The CHAIR: There being no further questions, and with the tradition of the rapier-quick delivery of omnibus questions having continued, I thank the minister and his advisers for making themselves available and declare the examination of the proposed payments adjourned until tomorrow. At 18:46 the committee adjourned until Wednesday 23 July 2014 at 10:00.